[SLCN.Kez]

Yeah I really dont think the protoss upgrade will matter all that much, it'll be much more effective as a deterrent rather than an actual counter. However definitely happy mules are changed and now all 15 of my broods wont die to like 10 ghosts with machine gun snipes

[Nemo]

I think ghosts took 3 snipes to kill infestors before because the infestor was recovering 1 hit point just after the first snipe, whatever fast was the second snipe.

Now the ghost can snipe them in 2 shots. Brood or Ultras without infestors combo are far less powerfull. Without infest Vikings rule and without infest, bio can kite Ultras I guess.

That might be the idea of Blizzard. Change the target of the Ghosts, make them even more investor killers. That was there role in the first place, attack enemy sorcerers that support the army instead of letting them deal with the army itself.

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

Correct good sir

[ToRSmotPokingFish]

i dont think the snipe damage needed changing, maybe make it have a cooldown instead of use energy, honestly i love this idea, and then decrease max energy maybe? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RicocheT]

Looks like a theory build I was (Marine/Ghost/Medivac) going won't work one bit since snipe can't even kill a friggin baneling/ling. Nerfed to 25 damage is a bit overkill. Not such a drastic change would of been better (although you will 2 shot infestors now, which is better than 3). Still don't really understand, when Zerg has such a bossly AOE in fungal and Toss has Collo, also with intense AOE and you nerf the single target unit spell. Regardless, changes aren't 'set' and maybe Snipe nerf won't be so bad.

Maybe...probably not.

Not fussed about the MULE nerf, I saw it coming.
I got a few friends who like to rage hard about mules and gold expos.
Hope they stop their QQ now regarding that issue.

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by XanT

I'll make sure archons aren't far away if the muta count isn't high enough :P

Mmm archons, my favouritest

Happy about the MULE nerf, though I do feel that getting rid of gold bases would have made more sense...

Will have to experiment with this phoenix upgrade and see how useful it actually is.

[TAXanT]

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

Will have to experiment with this phoenix upgrade and see how useful it actually is.

Agreed

I think it'll be useful, the question is what zerg players will do to deal with it.

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

This has been one of the hardest things to deal with as protoss when going stargate after seeing a spire, we have no way to know if its going to be 9 muta harass or mass mass muta, and over-spending on phoenix & an air upgrade can cause a roach switch to put you horrrrrrribly behind.

A fact which zerg could most definitely make use of.

[iRLpuku]

for all the terrans out there

Quick Comments

	ToRSmotPokingFish:	<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
	TABottles:	♥
	Nemo:	Yeah, baby, Terran for the true ones haha :D
	dKiWi:

[TABottles]

Stop keeping me down Blizzard lol

Also, CPM.. !? Just keep it APM and call your slightly modified one Blizzard APM. Why would anyone rename the original.

EDIT: Oops I read it wrong - Must have been blinded by the Terran nerfs

[inFeZa]

I really like the phoenix idea. Hopefully i won't see stupid balls of 30+ mutas fly into my base and wreck every probe i have now, then trying to counter attack into a billion spines. edit= and no amount of cannons can stop a muta ball.

As for the MULES - Really should have gotten rid of the golds all together.

Quick Comments

	Asrathiel:	Yup yup yup
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	this!!

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.inFeZa

As for the MULES - Really should have gotten rid of the golds all together.

Keeping the gold bases adds an element to the game about base decisions.
Now that Mules don't mine crazy amounts in the gold, taking the gold has the same mineral boost across all races.

Removing the gold bases really just makes taking bases quite stale, and linear, instead of adding a risk factor to it.

I hope the GSL re-adds gold bases after this patch is out, below is my reasoning.


Edit:
The following numbers used are MADE UP for clarity and getting a point across!
Now that I think about it, technically Terran still get the bonus out of it. Imagine, 6 patches of Gold, fully saturated (18workers) gives you 1000 mineral income.
Because the way Terran's Mules work (They can mine while a SCV is mining the same patch) means that Terran can still get a boost, but is it enough to worry about now that the mining amount has been reduced?
Example, 18workers gets 1000mineral income on the gold. Assuming 3 OC terran, 3 Mules adds 999 to the income amount.

Is that just how Mules are ment to work, buffing the Terran economy so that it is not an issue, or should gold bases still be removed completely?

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by System

Keeping the gold bases adds an element to the game about base decisions.
Now that Mules don't mine crazy amounts in the gold, taking the gold has the same mineral boost across all races.

Removing the gold bases really just makes taking bases quite stale, and linear, instead of adding a risk factor to it.

I hope the GSL re-adds gold bases after this patch is out, below is my reasoning.


Edit:
The following numbers used are MADE UP for clarity and getting a point across!
Now that I think about it, technically Terran still get the bonus out of it. Imagine, 6 patches of Gold, fully saturated (18workers) gives you 1000 mineral income.
Because the way Terran's Mules work (They can mine while a SCV is mining the same patch) means that Terran can still get a boost, but is it enough to worry about now that the mining amount has been reduced?
Example, 18workers gets 1000mineral income on the gold. Assuming 3 OC terran, 3 Mules adds 999 to the income amount.

Is that just how Mules are ment to work, buffing the Terran economy so that it is not an issue, or should gold bases still be removed completely?

Just makes me think that maybe terran won't MULE their gold now, as the gold patches will last longer if they MULE their main/nat which yields the same income anyway? Probably a smarter decision and leave the SCV's mining at the gold for as long as possible..

This is a pretty brutal patch for terran, I don't think the snipe needed to get nerfed THAT much, but I don't play zerg so I don't know how bad it actually is when playing.

[TAXanT]

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by XanT

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

thats fair for a Fleet Bacon upgrade.
now i hope to see some more phoenix to carrier tranisitions

Quick Comments

TAXanT:

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by XanT

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

That's quite a nice difference

[Rageboredguy]

I must say i think blizzard are in the right area this time. Mules on gold change nobody is really upset about... But perhaps make the change to snipe against massive units? Ultras and Broodlords are the only 2 biological massive units around (that i can think of) this way it doesn't effect any other part of the game. And the phoenix change is a good one, mutas are way too good against toss, they are meant to be harassers, not fight the army straight up. At this rate phoenixes may become a must against zerg, but thats not a bad thing, there are always overlords to be popped and drones to be harassed.

But the main thing is how well blizz have done actually hitting the right areas, maybe not perfect changes but they have realized some of the major issues today.

Shocked me anyway..

[Xenomorph]

Forgive me if someone has already posted this but... Couldn't the phoneix range upgrade also have some effect on PvT late game? They would be a lot more effective against vikings, therefore allowing collosi to live+kill terran. The snipe nerf I agree with, I mean cmon guys the ghost counter both our tier 3 and infestor units...

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Agreed. It's a Colossi + Phoenixes buff to watch.

[iRLpuku]

Originally Posted by Xenomorph

The snipe nerf I agree with, I mean cmon guys the ghost counter both our tier 3 and infestor units...

the marine counters every unit in the zerg army.. i think blizz should consider removing the marine too. perhaps a nerf was needed. but probably to 30 to 35 damage should be the right number.

my fellow terrans.. time to put more time into practice and less discussion on balance issues.

[VB_davidbloop]

As a Terran I'm not so much worried about the nerfs but more worried about the Pheonix buff. I can see them being used a lot to help stop the threat of vikings against colossus.

[ToRSmotPokingFish]

Originally Posted by davidbloop

As a Terran I'm not so much worried about the nerfs but more worried about the Pheonix buff. I can see them being used a lot to help stop the threat of vikings against colossus.

even harder for terran to beat lategame :/