[nirvAnA]

Haven't been here in awhile but wow..... crAzerk and Nemo in particular have done an amazing job with this thread. Great job guys! Looks like many obvious hackers have been outted.

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

What I dont understand about people like you who are so 'gifted' that everyone else can't see the level-above logic you're using to make your miraculously correct decisions is, why don't you just come to LAN tournaments and take all the prize money...?

To add to what Pinder has said, both Timber and I studied about 5 replays of him(Ghost), sent it to a few other top players before we made the decision to upload the replays. Now are you saying we are all too low level to understand your thought process or the game? So your whole argument fails and that personal attack on Nemo is just sad and unnecessary.

And if you cared so much about clearing your name (you obviously actually do hence your long post) you would have posted the ladder replays. But you can't do that because some will inevitably show you blatantly hacking and you know it.

[RicocheT]

No need to diss Nemo who uses his own time and effort to seek out suspicious activity ala maphack.
He may not be the most knowledgeable person but on sc2sea we have a huge group of high players that can also give their own opinions if others are unsure.

[xGKingdelete]

Well ghost, it's a shame things had to end this way. Maphacks or not, you have to be decent to get ranked so high anyway. If it were me, I would be fighting for my credibility and reputation above all else. But of course, it isn't me.

It's good to see you aren't openly angry at the community about this, but please, don't insult Nemo. He's just analysing, and he's done a great job of it.

Quick Comments

Eldrid:

handsomest nerdballer ev0r

[Nemo]

Thanks for your support guys.

I didn't want to justify myself to Ghost on his personal attacks as it's not to the defendant to judge his prosecutors. I did my analysis and let others judge the case, helped or not by my analysis. It's just an help to let people make their opinions.

So when he says that it's people that has not enough understanding of the game that judge him, he in fact indicate (and insulting) guys like Vendetta, Nirvana, delete12, Timber, wolf (all and all except Timber) who thought he indeed was probably hacking.

Those guys all said that my work helped at least a bit make an opinion about it, so it was not a waste of time. I'm not a good player and I lack a lot of knowledge of this game, but I have still my qualities that can contribute to see or highlight certain things. The fact that people here were able to accept that you still can talk and be listened to without being the best player out there is one of the reason I made sc2sea my sc2 "home".

When you start attacking people and no more their ideas, it's generally that you know your ideas are wrong.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	<3 your
	Eldrid:	have my children

[Rockstar]

Anything he does at this point won't clear his name. He left it too long. The only way he could have cleared it is if he uploaded the games prior to the ones which we analysed. Which is impossible at this point, We have no way of confirming that those games were played prior to the ones uploaded here. On top of that, he blatantly maphacked in the other replays anyway...

[Meatex]

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

I think you should have stayed in the game until the end, you weren't too far behind. Just saying.

But yeah, 4 blind cannons is strange. would like to see more replays of this guy

[Apth]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

• Doesn't scout your expo
• Puts up a whole heap of cannons in anticipation of a Roach rush he doesn't know is coming

Indicative of hacking? Yes.
Proof? Unfortunately not.

I'd say that in all likelihood this guy is hacking, but unfortunately this is one of the instances of suspicious behaviour that could be explained away by game sense or random chance.

IMO - benefit of the doubt for now, any further evidence will be the nail in the coffin.

[Eldrid]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

I watched this replay, and it seems a little sus.

Just on the making of the 4 cannons:

I have played protoss (and have them in my clan, and have talked to them about their decision making on this exact topic...)
When a protoss scouts gas first, and then CANT scout if you make an expansion due to having their probe killed (he did try to scout your expo, your lings killed it before it saw anything) the only safe way to play is to drop 3-4 cannons *incase* you roach all-in (practiced this all-in extensively, i learnt to deny scouting as you did, and this was the only way my clan-mates could stop the all in after having scouting denied). You cant react, you need to have defense up "just in case".

This is GM level decision making though. I dont actually know if it applies to a diamond level game. Perhaps this particular player loses to roach allin's alot and just made the cannons for safety? i don't know. I would label this as suspicious, certainly, but he did scout your gas first *however* he didnt scout if you went over 100 gas aka speed -> pull off gas -> economy only with speed build, this is the part that makes me suspicious.

Need more replays to confirm 30000% certainty.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

Thats right, if we are blind we are forced necessary defence for potential all in

[PiG]

yeah at first i was skeptical about some of the things that catch maphackers, then i realised that once u get X amount of instances where they do shit THAT sus then they usually are. My good friend evets was a hacker right under my eyes and I didn't know it. Maybe you are a rare example of someone who isn't. But all you did was refute ONE example of u probably hacking.

You instead wrote a self-indulgent little rant about this site and the SEA server because you're a little piece of shit. "Can't be bothered" my ass. Go kill yourself mate.

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Go kill yourself?
	TABjornbrandr:	counter-rep for laying down the law
	ROOTPetraeus:	bit harsh
	MooZfY:	:(
	Eldrid:	laying down the law+1
	Nemo:	PiG righful fury. :) Well, Ghost don't kill yourself though, it's just a game. ;)
	Zealo:	**** hackers
	nirvAnA:	all good till last line piggy!
	syfChadMann:	I lol'd
	ToRSpartaz:	Last line man :(
	Rockstar:
	TASlowHands:	Thats not funny my goldfish died that way

[crAzerk]

@Meatex
Just watched the replay, and even though it seems suspicious, it's hardly conclusive, as you said so himself. Would need more replays to even put him on 'Suspected Hackers' imo.

Some random possible reasons I can think of:
- He has played you before and you do roach/ling all ins (no idea if this is true, just saying)
- He has played Zergs before this who roach/ling all in him and he wanted to be safe
- He is bad.

Weak reasons, yes, but similarly weak case.

@Pig
A little late, doncha think ? :/

[Theend]

It happens to me when i play random.
My opp said at the start of game example "dont 6p me"
Oh Pls.... i was playing random..... i have replay if u want see.
We cant prevent other from doing "whatever" they like.
As long as we play fair all is good i think
my2c

[TABjornbrandr]

Originally Posted by Theend

It happens to me when i play random.
My opp said at the start of game example "dont 6p me"
Oh Pls.... i was playing random..... i have replay if u want see.
We cant prevent other from doing "whatever" they like.
As long as we play fair all is good i think
my2c

That could easily stem from the fact that Random players are notorious for cheesing and with 6-pools being one of the most easily recognised cheeses, him saying that isn't necessarily indicative of him hacking.

@crazerk, I'd assume PiG saw that the thread had been posted in recently (by Meatex) and assumed that Ghost's response was current. Accident, nothing more.

[wTlzq]

What is the league of DeltaV?

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by lzq

What is the league of DeltaV?

high diamond

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

DeltaV production tab hacker
Played this guy on ladder a few times and he had a very odd ability to sense what I was doing every time.
Going to save future replays as evidence as don't think I have any saved from the earlier times

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=766

+ Show +

This one at 4:30 he has probe position at his FFE wall waiting possibly to drop cyber core
My roach warren goes down and few seconds later he puts pylon where he'd want his cyber core and adds a second cannon. I denied his fake scouting (as he doesn't even click it into my base just clicks it below the ramp outside my natural)
You could argue that maybe he just wanted to be safe but he continues to add 2 additional cannons for a total of 4. Not to mention he made one zealot he sent to the tower that I killed with 4 lings. He had no vision no prompt to make 4 cannons and go straight for sentries and chronoing his warpgate while holding position a probe and sentry at gap in the wall.
His actions are while not 100% definitive, are absolutely indicative of reactionary play to an all in he knows is coming that he shouldn't have

my search of my ladder history brought up 3 replays. in none of them was he doing things like look at my base through fog or anything else i would consider obvious signs of hacking.

+ Show +

replay 1, 28/07/2011: a 4v4, deltaV left at the 2 minute mark. no evidence of hacking

replay 2, 14/02/2012: i 10 pool ling all in, he scouts the pool and gas as they go down then leaves a probe at my natural and goes double gas > DT. probe at my nat makes me think he's not prod tab hacking or map hacking, as he would know if i expanded without the probe there, and bringing probe home to mine would be reasonable to do (ie, not considerred a tell he's hacking)

replay 3, 16/02/2012: http://drop.sc/118896
shakuras - i do a 1 base marine medivac all in. his total scouting consists of his probe seeing my 13 rax/14 gas

+ Show +

(after doing this weird thing where he scouts my ramp then checks the other base. i can understand doing that vs terran (which he would know with prod tab hacks), but PvP or PvZ (or PvT against someone who doesn't bother walling vs toss) there would be nothing at the ramp for him to see and he'd be better off spending 3 seconds walking the probe in further)

then a zealot seeing 3 marines at my ramp (and no expo/bunker on the low ground) just before stim finishes. (ie, he knows i have a barracks that has been making marines) production tab would reveal i have a reactoron my 2nd rax and a factory about to finish. his response is to throw down a collosus den and a third gateway, making colossus and stalkers. production tab reveals i am getting a techlab, 3 marines at a time and a starport, he expands. at this point his obs finishes (was supply blocked for ages so very late) and goes directly to my base (not worried about cloak banshees?) no further analysis is possible as he can see everything i'm doing anyway.

how does a player with terrible macro get to high diamond doing shit like 1 base 3gate stalker+colossus, then expanding because he has 700 minerals, (almost totally) blindly?

if you assume he's not hacking, you can argue; he was planning to do a one base colossus all in (?) then decided not too (because he saw 3 marines and no expo on the low ground?) and expanded instead. OR he was doing a super safe expansion opening (?). both seem unlikely at high diamond level.

if you assume he has prod tab hack, you can argue; colossus are a response to seeing i'm going pure marine, no expansion is in response to seeing i haven't even started a CC on my high ground. he has the option of doing some sort of timing to punish my expansion, but decides against it when he realises i'm making tanks and a starport instead of a CC. instead he expands, knowing all he has to do to win is hold off my push and use his tech and income advantage to roll me in a macro game.

either way, his decision making in both games is so bad i don't want to use it as evidence against him.

tl;dr it wouldn't surprise me if he makes 4 cannons blindly every time he FFEs, need more replays if you want to accuse him of anything.

[Meatex]

granted i didn't save the replays but if you watch the timing its pretty clearly reactive. I haven't played sc2 much for a while and certainly not against him or I'd have the replays
Not to mention a protoss will drop 2 cannons if he is worried about roach ling all in... not 4

In my eyes he is confirmed hacker but yeah we'll see if I play him more and can get more replays

[Theend]

Originally Posted by FaDeBjornbrandr

That could easily stem from the fact that Random players are notorious for cheesing and with 6-pools being one of the most easily recognised cheeses, him saying that isn't necessarily indicative of him hacking.

u dont get it... right when the game start as early as first few second and someone tell u that.
so he has 6th sense to think of 6pool when the chance of zerg is 1/3?
edit:how do i upload a replay? im sry for nub question

[crAzerk]

@Bjornbrandr Yea well I'm not one of those who neg repped him

@ Everyone

It's good to post in here to catch potential hackers and stuff, but I would like to encourage everyone to save your posts for until you have good reason to believe the person is hacking.
And by good reason I mean :
- One replay of the person blatantly hacking (i.e. glancing into fog repeatedly)
- Multiple replays of the person reacting blindly but perfectly (e.g. Meatex's replay)
- Multiple replays of any other suspicious behavior
- In all cases, more replays are better than less.

If you post just a single replay without much to go on, it unnecessarily tarnishes the person's name and reputation. I'm sure you wouldn't want that for yourself!

Quick Comments

	Apth:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious
	Eldrid:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious
	iMSystem:	Multiple replays or incredibly obvious?

[Zealo]

i wish i could give yang rep for every one of his posts in this thread

Originally Posted by crAzerk

It's good to post in here to catch potential hackers and stuff, but I would like to encourage everyone to save your posts for until you have good reason to believe the person is hacking.

what do you suggest for replays that are 'suspicious', but not conclusive? i think it's worth having somewhere to post them so other people can check their replays against that player; if they really are hacking it's about the only way to gather evidence.

i agree there are some accusations that go far beyond the evidence, but anyone willing to make such accusations would probably make them anyway in a new thread.

[PiG]

yeah posting on phone ftl. also drunk and hence yes way too harsh . Still retarded attitude when it said he was only confirmed until he posts reps... and instead just loses his shit as if an institution was silencing him and he is just a hopeless freedom fighter or something ridiculous.

Really gets on my nerves when people think they're amazing because they make it to the "top" of SEA ladder and therefore the server is bad. Too stupid to comprehend that ladder is alot "easier" then the top players on it and that a server with 1/20th the players of any other serve will have 1/20th less pros and hence GM on SEA is not the same as GM on NA/EU/KR. 200 players here is actually a big % unlike on those servers.

Koreans get to the top of NA doing the DUMBEST builds I have ever seen literally just having better mechanics then their opponents. Ruff holds rank 1 GM on NA doing mass reaper rushes... ladder, enough said.

derp lets insult the server instead of arguing a few points and redeeming ourselves...

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	asdfSchnitzel: