[Satu]

Originally Posted by Benji

Banelings are too much of a power unit when both players are going speedlings to make this build too viable. Dumping 100 gas on +1 instead of 4 extra banes isn't something I believe will help you out at all.

How have you found the build goes vs banelings with decent control?

Time for me to be brutally honest.

I dont know.

I've tried this build a few times, and its won most times, especially when my opponent doesn't go for tech, and makes a large ground army. But I dont know how banelings will really effect the build. In a wide open map, you can assume that speedlings will outrun the banelings, but the player with the banes should be able to control them well enough to defend their bases. I doubt it'd be possible to lock down expansions, but it still gives you the cover to expand yourself. Also, since I recommend a few spines, defending vs banes can be easier.

I've also tried this in 2v2s and its worked even better, as you dont need spines.

But the build order above isn't even the most efficient order. Im going to modify it now so that there is no excess gas mined and so that its safer vs rushes/proxies. I think the build is also good vs some protoss openings, I've heard of a +1 speedlings expand build vs protoss, and this was just what I came up with after hearing about a build like that.

The build isn't foolproof, but which build is? It has strengths and weaknesses like any other build, you just need to assess whether you have a good amount of control using this build compared with other builds you can use.

Edit: I also believe the early +1 vs a zerg can always be a benefit. Even if you switch to roaches or banelings, you will be ahead in most battles due to that upgrade. Afterwards I usually get the +1 armor, which really screws them over.

[Seagal]

u said tht u shuld build spines instead of lings so tht u can save larvae for drones but, you lose drones in the making of spines. i cant see tht helping u out economically at all y not just get lings?

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Seagal

u said tht u shuld build spines instead of lings so tht u can save larvae for drones but, you lose drones in the making of spines. i cant see tht helping u out economically at all y not just get lings?

Spines do more damage than lings and last longer. One spine can do the same damage about six lings can do, except its one larvae used, not three. Plus they are cheaper than six lings. The larvae saved can be used on drones.

Economically, lings will hurt you more that early if your opponent attacks.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

But the build order above isn't even the most efficient order. Im going to modify it now so that there is no excess gas mined and so that its safer vs rushes/proxies. I think the build is also good vs some protoss openings, I've heard of a +1 speedlings expand build vs protoss, and this was just what I came up with after hearing about a build like that.

Against protoss, it works because you can put pressure on any early expand from them, it also deals well with some 4 gate builds.

The build isn't foolproof, but which build is? It has strengths and weaknesses like any other build, you just need to assess whether you have a good amount of control using this build compared with other builds you can use.

The issue with the build is that Banelings counter speedlings, and all you are doing is investing more into your speedlings, making it harder to swap tech, or transition out of. +1 armour would be more viable as it allows you to survive a baneling explosion with a Ling, which might seem awesome on paper, but when you play using it, it doesnt really help.

You aren't dealing with the Banelings at all. What you should be doing is saying 'I'm opening speedling, what counters this? Banelings, Ok how do I deal with that? Roaches choking a ramp, how do I deal with that?' and so forth.

Edit: I also believe the early +1 vs a zerg can always be a benefit. Even if you switch to roaches or banelings, you will be ahead in most battles due to that upgrade. Afterwards I usually get the +1 armor, which really screws them over.

+1 Melee doesn't help Roaches at all as they require +1 Ranged, and roaches are what most midgame ZvZ's turn into.


I hope I am not sounding harsh, i mean nothing against you at all and I am trying to be really constructive, but perhaps rank up to diamond and try the build there, see how it fares against players that understand what builds counter what?

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Benji

You aren't dealing with the Banelings at all. What you should be doing is saying 'I'm opening speedling, what counters this? Banelings, Ok how do I deal with that? Roaches choking a ramp, how do I deal with that?' and so forth.

+1 Melee doesn't help Roaches at all as they require +1 Ranged, and roaches are what most midgame ZvZ's turn into.

I hope I am not sounding harsh, i mean nothing against you at all and I am trying to be really constructive, but perhaps rank up to diamond and try the build there, see how it fares against players that understand what builds counter what?

To be honest, this is an opening. You can easily transition to roaches or blings, and the +1 melee at the start will help later on, Im sure. Also, I dont know why I didnt notice before roaches need +1 ranged... Im an idiot xD

You dont need to go for +1 speedlings consistently through the game, but it can be pretty darn strong to begin with.