[ke_ivan]

Once upon a time, there was an ability called the 250mm cannon. It was a long forgotten ability that hailed back to the campaign days. It was resurrected by Jinro to defeat the Mighty Kratoss Protoss President MC. Heck, even Blizzard tried to tweak/increase its usability by giving it a 50-sec cool down. After a while though, they switched the cannons back to energy. I bet no one even remembers that.

<b>So what is the 250mm Cannon?</b>
It is a spell ability that channels 500 damage over 6 seconds a target, and stunning it for x secs. It cannot target air. It also has a 2 second intro and a 2nd outro. Also note that a Thor does more damage out of cannon mode once it has vehicle weapons 1. It is researched at the factory tech lab and costs 150 minerals and 150 gas and takes 110 in-game seconds to complete. It once was a small AOE spell, but now only targets single units.

Aside from immortals, it apparently takes out colossi and leaves ultralisks (immune to stun) with one hp. But with thermal lance, all I can say is lulz to that. They don't stun ultras so lulz to that too. Yet they are prone to feedback and emp.

So what are the cannons exactly useful for?

[ToRDeathsFang]

Idk what you can use it for but HT with Feedback=om nom nom nom nom on the energy

[Aean(:]

I think the switch back to energy made it useless in TvP. High templar can just feedback all day

[Maynarde]

The cannons also stun right? So I guess it would be good against Ultralisks as well maybe but damn I thought it splashed. If it doesn't splash it's really.... kinda useless. Unless you use it to kill buildings uber fast?

[ke_ivan]

But don't the thors already start out with energy? If they do, they should just remove 250mm cannons completely. Blizzard nerfed 250mm cannons when it wasn't being used and now it will probably never be used.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

so true. well it was the thorzain nerf patch

[Yonge]

you've now got me intrigued...can't say i've ever used the 250mm cannons, but gonna make it my mission tonight to use them!

[LennX]

Wrong at max range, the 250mm cannon will destroy the ultralisk (left with 1 hp). Followed by a thor normal attack, the ultralisk will die even before getting into melee range of a thor. So 250mm are pretty good against ultralisk in a 1v1 situation which 99% of the time wont happen in a game.


As lousy as a thor that can be feedback is, it is the best terran option against Protoss late game in my opinion.

[ToRDeathsFang]

What makes Thors even worse currently is that the 250mm strike cannons takes i think 125 energy, so even if the Terran wants to use it he'd have to wait a long time to build up the energy, in which time Feedback can haunt you.

IMO, it should either be made more practical (AoE, less cast time) etc, or less energy. I know i'm Toss and i'm saying a Terran unit should be buffed but that aspect of the Thor is ridiculously underpowered.

On the other hand mass Thor with SCV repair is kind of impossible to stop.....

[LennX]

It takes 150 energy to use strike cannons. Mass thor/scvs repair cowers at a squad of HTs. =D

[ToRDeathsFang]

Originally Posted by LennX

It takes 150 energy to use strike cannons. Mass thor/scvs repair cowers at a squad of HTs. =D

1) Okay 150 energy w/e
2) Provided there's only Thors and SCV's. Some Ghosts mixed in would demolish the HT

Anyway, just my 2 cents

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by DeathsFang

1) Okay 150 energy w/e
2) Provided there's only Thors and SCV's. Some Ghosts mixed in would demolish the HT

Anyway, just my 2 cents

Now THAT is actually an interesting unit comp I've never seen before ... Would be intrigued to see someone try out Thor + Ghost w/ SCV repair to see how well it does vs a Protoss.

Some good EMPs would render the HT useless and also severely effect the Immortals viability vs that composition as well as zealots who could die to snipes / thor fire so easy.

This... I must see. *contemplation chin stroke*.

[Fourby]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Now THAT is actually an interesting unit comp I've never seen before ... Would be intrigued to see someone try out Thor + Ghost w/ SCV repair to see how well it does vs a Protoss.

Some good EMPs would render the HT useless and also severely effect the Immortals viability vs that composition as well as zealots who could die to snipes / thor fire so easy.

This... I must see. *contemplation chin stroke*.

Lol wouldnt the HT's just end up feedbacking the thors AND the ghosts...

HT's come in for the roflstomp with a cherry on top of a lolwtfbbq

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by Fourby

Lol wouldnt the HT's just end up feedbacking the thors AND the ghosts...

HT's come in for the roflstomp with a cherry on top of a lolwtfbbq

Depends if the Terran has sick cloak / EMP micro! It could go either way, you'd have the ghosts out the front to disable the HTs of course

Don't worry Dox is boss enough to pull this off and upload reps, patience and ye shall receive.

[Next_rim]

Mass thor/scvs repair cowers at a squad of HTs. =D

Storm the scv, feedback the thor, morph into archon in thor's face, a-move, profit.

In PvT, cannons won't add anything. Ghosts already make a joke out of immortals, and you don't really go colossi vs mech terran, unless you want to get stomped. I see some use in PvZ vs ultras, but a cannoning immobile thor makes such a good target for neural while it is shooting an ultra.

Ability needs to be completely redesigned imho. I still vote for overload (stim) type ability. Thor becomes immobile, but shoots faster. Will fit very nicely into the mech slow push style, and will add flavor to biomech.

[LennX]

While ghost/mech will be a viable strat sooner or later, it is the gas problem that is posing questions.

[Maynarde]

True, though I have seen Robo tech and Templar tech from Protoss in the same game before and that seems even more gas heavy to me than Ghost / Mech. *shrug* Anyway, still interested in the composition.

[ToRDeathsFang]

Just mass Thors is viable and you can easily afford constant production on 3 base from several factories but good point Lenn with the gas. You'd have to research cloak + get upgrades, that would be pushing the gas a little bit too far.

But this is kind of going off topic. (250mm strike cannons) A suggestion would be to make a seperate thread or have the name changed to the Thor in general as a unit?

[ke_ivan]

It's almost as if feedback cures everything! lol. But on a serious note, the 250mm cannons are kinda useless once you have vehicle weapons 1. On top of that, in that situation, Terran has to make two units (ghosts and thors, both of which are gas-intensive), and Protoss only needs to make one. Feedback is like 50 energy. It's like free damage. 1 Storm and 1 feedback would demolish scv-repaired thor. If I were meching, I would almost never invest in 250mm strike cannons, because why do that when you can have siege mode which is cheaper, has better range, doesn't get feedbacked, has splash damage and doesn't rely on energy? It is faster than siege mode though which takes 4 intro secs and 4 outro secs. Maybe there's a super fast way to push with the thor?

[Next_rim]

Maybe there's a super fast way to push with the thor?

There is, marine thor timing. Timing is flexible, can go with or w/o upgrades, with 1,2 or 3 thors, off an expo, or off 1 base. I've had 2 terrans play it against me. It was only close spawn metalopolis though, so I assume it is a narrow niche push.

Btw, don't 2x sieged tanks have more dps than thor with 250mm?

[Dox]

If we ever see Ghost/Mech happen in TvP, it would be a work of art!

Maybe someday we'll see some total baller who does a Triple Thor-vac drop and snipes someone's Orbital.

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by Dox

If we ever see Ghost/Mech happen in TvP, it would be a work of art!

Maybe someday we'll see some total baller who does a Triple Thor-vac drop and snipes someone's Orbital.

Can that person be you

Upload the reps please

[Dox]

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	There's a good lad
	ke_ivan:	Like a BOSS!
	ToRDeathsFang:	Dox toprating it like a boss

[noobinater]

Didn't the cannons receive their last nerf because thor timing pushes were becoming bullshit strong vP?
Maybe they'll get re-tooled for HOTS.

[Next_rim]

just went thor + ghosts in desert strike vs 3 toss, didn't work. Simple zealot + stalker rolls over it ez.

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

just went thor + ghosts in desert strike vs 3 toss, didn't work. Simple zealot + stalker rolls over it ez.

Post them replays!

[Dox]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

just went thor + ghosts in desert strike vs 3 toss, didn't work. Simple zealot + stalker rolls over it ez.

Your composition should never be pure Ghost/Thor! They should be augmented in place of Vikings. :P

[Next_rim]

Don't have them replays( Besides, there were no scv repairs.

We were talking how HT counters thor and such, but more units in protoss army counter thor too. I believe 4 chargelots beat 1 thor given equal upgrades, and cost no gas, just minerals. Thor has kind of low dps compared to stimmed bio or siege tanks. It is a fat tank, and is a muta counter. That's how blizz seems to define it, so no need to try and build a combo around it, given there are already better combos out there.

[Xeen]

Strike cannons, like all abilities that can't be microed against, were/are retarded and let Thors hardcounter their supposed 'counter' unit. I'd much rather see them replaced with something more reasonable.

[LennX]

Originally Posted by Xeen

Strike cannons, like all abilities that can't be microed against, were/are retarded and let Thors hardcounter their supposed 'counter' unit. I'd much rather see them replaced with something more reasonable.

Remove Thor; add in Goliath and/or Odin. It will make me a happy person.

[Next_rim]

Your composition should never be pure Ghost/Thor! They should be augmented in place of Vikings. :P

I had marines there too :P

Xeen,

You can't micro against yamatos. Doesn't make yamato stupid. It's in fact pure awesomeness

And since I brought up yamatos...thor doesn't need an over 9000 damage ability to single target, Terran already has one. BC yamato deals same damage instantly, and is mounted on a fatter and better unit in general. Have to differentiate and make 250mm a niche ability, then it will be used. Unfortunately, in the current metagame there is 0 use for it. TvZ is the only matchup with thors, and they are used as muta counters.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

PvZ is the only matchup with thors, and they are used as muta counters.

Goddamnit I wish, instead we get stalkers that do the damage of marines but cost 4x, and Archons which are basically thors with 1/3 the range so mutas don't even take damage before they magic box you.

I hate mutas so much oh my god

[Dox]

You're absolutely right. Having two expensive Tier 3 units with a large single-target damage ability is silly. Especially since the BC version is better!

They should just make Thors launch nukes instead.

[ToRDeathsFang]

Originally Posted by Dox

You're absolutely right. Having two expensive Tier 3 units with a large single-target damage ability is silly. Especially since the BC version is better!

They should just make Thors launch nukes instead.

With enough AoE to deal 2000 damage to the side of the map the enemy is on

[Next_rim]

nah, ghost with nukes is SC classics, can't touch that.

I want a stimmed thor

Gonna make custom map and add stim to thor.

Quick Comments

ke_ivan:

Bwahaha do that! I wonder what will happen!

[ke_ivan]

Actually you know what the thor needs? something to hold stuff in place. either that or something to deal with mass lings. Remember lock down? How about Irradiate? Those were already balanced abilities. Also, why can 250mm cannons stun a BC, but not an Ultralisk? lawl

[Yonge]

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

Actually you know what the thor needs? something to hold stuff in place. either that or something to deal with mass lings. Remember lock down? How about Irradiate? Those were already balanced abilities. Also, why can 250mm cannons stun a BC, but not an Ultralisk? lawl

Even a small hammer can stun Manneroth...tsk tsk blizzard! consistency is what we need here, consistency!

[ke_ivan]

Actually, 250mm cannon could be a viable counter to BCs. Hmmm.

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

Actually, 250mm cannon could be a viable counter to BCs. Hmmm.

Don't those cannons only hit ground? :|

Quick Comments

ke_ivan:

lulz! so true.

[Next_rim]

Goddamnit I wish, instead we get stalkers that do the damage of marines but cost 4x, and Archons which are basically thors with 1/3 the range so mutas don't even take damage before they magic box you.

sorryz, meant TvZ. For P vs mutas we have phoenix, example of one of the hardest counters in game.

[ke_ivan]

Oh right! I'm such a nub.