[nGenLight]

^ It is fine setting at 20% as it is from the clarification from yourself and summary from Dippa. The vagueness of the prizes from the announcement was what really generated concerns. But it's fine!

[TAavanar]

Originally Posted by riiChard

Just to start some controversy. If I get into an easy group where I know I'm going to come first ... I'm going to throw games away and come second so that I don't have to compete against the best (who are in the Gold Division). This way I can compete against casual players which increases my chance to win a prize from the Silver Division.



Discuss.

wait u actually play this game?

[deL]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

the current prize set up has the prizes distributed as roughly 80% to the top comp and 20% to the 2nd comp, so what should it be reduced to 10%? 5%? 0%? please tell us so we know for future reference?

All other decent players might as well play their best. The way to maximise this is to offer some additional "low value" prizes for 5th, 6th etc in Div 1.

4th-8th all go home with a electronic helicopter [/QUOTE]
I think the issue was with the vagueness of the prizes. It seemed to us that the 1st prize in the Silver division was equal to the 2nd prize in the Gold division, which is obviously a problem. Prize distribution seems fine for now.

Originally Posted by Tom

TL;DR

Best way to get legitimate play - do not let any players have access to game results until everyone has qualified! This will not prevent private arrangements between players (but these players run the risk of someone not "honouring" the bargain).

I don't think this is an option if what dippa is saying is true - this detracts from a lot of the fun for people who have no chance at winning. The reason I go to LANs as someone who has no chance at a prize are for 2 main reasons: meet and play with friends/sc2 fans and to follow the results/watch games. Without being able to follow along with a bracket as a spectator or player who isn't there to win is going to diminish a lot of the fun for me personally and I assume there are people who think similarly. Also I don't think it would be that effective because there are match histories so you can construct your own results, and many people are well known on SEA so I think you could make quite accurate guesses about at least the top 3 placings in a bracket and how many wins or losses that is going to be. This was the case for NRG qualifier groups as almost every favourite topped their group.

The easier way is to just ensure a fair format and prize distribution and you will not have any more game-throwing or foul play than any other tournament and that is all you can really ask when the standard of these other offline or online tournaments is acceptable.

[Tom]

Well yeah obviously the best way to ensure fair play is to only have 1 division ;p

I'm just interested in how one should structure a prize pool that is decent for lower tier players without encouraging better players to throw games!

[PiG]

Nub Question: What's a helicopter?

[SnoWPanda]

why do they always love scrap station! man I hate that map with a passion! god what an awful map.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by PiG

Nub Question: What's a helicopter?

Quick google search found this, hope it gives you a rough idea:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...ft/MSIHawk.jpg

[dippa]

4th-8th all go home with a electronic helicopter
I think the issue was with the vagueness of the prizes. It seemed to us that the 1st prize in the Silver division was equal to the 2nd prize in the Gold division, which is obviously a problem. Prize distribution seems fine for now.

Originally Posted by deL

I don't think this is an option if what dippa is saying is true - this detracts from a lot of the fun for people who have no chance at winning. The reason I go to LANs as someone who has no chance at a prize are for 2 main reasons: meet and play with friends/sc2 fans and to follow the results/watch games. Without being able to follow along with a bracket as a spectator or player who isn't there to win is going to diminish a lot of the fun for me personally and I assume there are people who think similarly. Also I don't think it would be that effective because there are match histories so you can construct your own results, and many people are well known on SEA so I think you could make quite accurate guesses about at least the top 3 placings in a bracket and how many wins or losses that is going to be. This was the case for NRG qualifier groups as almost every favourite topped their group.

The easier way is to just ensure a fair format and prize distribution and you will not have any more game-throwing or foul play than any other tournament and that is all you can really ask when the standard of these other offline or online tournaments is acceptable.

Not only is it not an option, it's downright impossible - unless you stop players from spectating the game (thereby telling their friends about the result) and stop the players from leaving the area and contacting their friends after they've finished their matches (which you can't legally do because it's not specifically in the T&C when people signed up to play in the tournament).

And Brendan's right again - LANs are about the social aspect of gaming as much as they are about the competitive side.

Plus, even a Nazi admin (that's me) wouldn't go so far as to withhold results. Too much effort for zero value in the long run (when you consider that you're basically removing half the fun from the LAN).

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

the current prize set up has the prizes distributed as roughly 80% to the top comp and 20% to the 2nd comp, so what should it be reduced to 10%? 5%? 0%? please tell us so we know for future reference?

All other decent players might as well play their best. The way to maximise this is to offer some additional "low value" prizes for 5th, 6th etc in Div 1.

4th-8th all go home with a electronic helicopter [/QUOTE]

you guys are doing fine, relax see how people react after the event and then take stock.

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Benji

Quick google search found this, hope it gives you a rough idea:

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...ft/MSIHawk.jpg

Stop trolling you troll. MSI Helicopters look this
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...ges/tiger6.jpg

[ToR.Arnor]

Hi Guys

There has been a lot of talk regarding City Hunter’s policy on the wearing of Competitors logos inside our venues in particular on competition days.

Our Policy is as follows:

‘City Hunter does not allow any material that promotes a direct competitor i.e. LAN Cafes inside their venues.’

Many people may ask why this is the case, so I’ll explain our position, City Hunter spends a significant amount of time, money and stress into contributing to the development and growth of the esports community and has done so for many years. From a business ethics point of view, We believe our competitors should not reap from the rewards of all our hard efforts for little to no contribution to WCG.

This stance is not uncommon in business Coles wouldnt allow Woolworths to promote inside their shops Target for Big W, David Jones in Myer etc etc nor would thier competitors expect them to.

If you have any concerns regarding this policy feel free to PM me so we can discuss this further

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

Hi Guys

There has been a lot of talk regarding City Hunter’s policy on the wearing of Competitors logos inside our venues in particular on competition days.

Our Policy is as follows:

‘City Hunter does not allow any material that promotes a direct competitor i.e. LAN Cafes inside their venues.’

Many people may ask why this is the case, so I’ll explain our position, City Hunter spends a significant amount of time, money and stress into contributing to the development and growth of the esports community and has done so for many years. From a business ethics point of view, We believe our competitors should not reap from the rewards of all our hard efforts for little to no contribution to WCG.

This stance is not uncommon in business Coles wouldnt allow Woolworths to promote inside their shops Target for Big W, David Jones in Myer etc etc nor would thier competitors expect them to.

If you have any concerns regarding this policy feel free to PM me so we can discuss this further

This needs to be changed; you're essentially neglecting a whole group of people (TA) because their sponsor is a lan cafe. If the situation were reversed, wouldn't you feel this would be stupid?

[deL]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

Hi Guys

There has been a lot of talk regarding City Hunter’s policy on the wearing of Competitors logos inside our venues in particular on competition days.

Our Policy is as follows:

‘City Hunter does not allow any material that promotes a direct competitor i.e. LAN Cafes inside their venues.’

Many people may ask why this is the case, so I’ll explain our position, City Hunter spends a significant amount of time, money and stress into contributing to the development and growth of the esports community and has done so for many years. From a business ethics point of view, We believe our competitors should not reap from the rewards of all our hard efforts for little to no contribution to WCG.

By denying a large group of players who have worked hard to obtain sponsorship the chance to represent their team and limiting the ways a player can sustain their starcraft career/hobby. Right.

You use Big W as an example, but this is more like a football team sponsored by a bank playing on a football field sponsored/named by a different bank. Or poker players who are sponsored by one online poker site playing in a tournament that is affiliated with a different website. Happens all the time - it's the nature of the beast because similar companies are going to be interested in supporting teams or people who are part of the same sport that their competitors are sponsoring. You can't say on one hand "we support esports and contibute so much to the scene" and on the other say "because we support esports so much no one else can contribute" - it comes across as childish rather than like a rational business decision.

No one is going to go to a large CityHunter tournament well run by CityHunter admins and have a great time, and then go "oh look this guy has a competitor's logo on his shirt let's forget about this great event and go conduct our business there instead".

I feel that doing something like this is going to make those supported by another net cafe bitter about the whole experience and go out of their way to let people know about their affiliation with the other netcafe. It puts more pressure on you guys to perform well, because every chance they get they will compare it to the other netcafe and in this medium where your visuals are saturated by the CityHunter logos and venue word of mouth and verbal support is going to have more impact than a small logo. By denying this and upsetting a large number of players affiliated with competitors you guarantee that if they do well any news posts are going to broadcast their sponsorship by another cafe in large, bold letters, undoing the hard work you say you put in to the scene. If you just live and let live in this case I personally feel you're more likely to have the players comment positively about the event and not put so much emphasis on the competitior - you're probably playing right in to the competition's hands.

For the record, I am not personally sponsored or affiliated in any way with a LAN cafe sponsor.

Quick Comments

PiG:

Good points deL

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by tgun

This needs to be changed; you're essentially neglecting a whole group of people (TA) because their sponsor is a lan cafe. If the situation were reversed, wouldn't you feel this would be stupid?

The policy above doesnt not exclude TA just the use of material that would promote their sponsor, At present no one from either TA or their sponsor has contacted me to try and see if a resolution could be obtained.

In regards to your second point the people we sponsor are expected not to tag there in-game names or bring any kind of material promoting our cafe when attending competitors LANs out of respect for said competitors

[Sanctify]

So, which SC players live in Sydney anyway :L?

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

The policy above doesnt not exclude TA just the use of material that would promote their sponsor, At present no one from either TA or their sponsor has contacted me to try and see if a resolution could be obtained.

In regards to your second point the people we sponsor are expected not to tag there in-game names or bring any kind of material promoting our cafe when attending competitors LANs out of respect for said competitors

I am not saying you're keeping them away from the tournament; but if they're unable to represent their sponsor, their sponsor is less inclined to invest in e-sports, thus hurting a competetive setup in general.

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

The policy above doesnt not exclude TA just the use of material that would promote their sponsor, At present no one from either TA or their sponsor has contacted me to try and see if a resolution could be obtained.

In regards to your second point the people we sponsor are expected not to tag there in-game names or bring any kind of material promoting our cafe when attending competitors LANs out of respect for said competitors

I was actually in contact with someone who had contact with the "tournament director" and I was informed that we were allowed to wear our sponsored uniforms to the WCG City Hunter event. So I basically assumed that communication had occurred between WCG and City Hunter on this issue but then I figured that WCG and City Hunter didn't communicate with each other over this matter after I saw your post today. (I was referred to this email if I wanted to escalate things j.gray@tlsolutions.com.au)


A quote from a post on Team Liquid forums from Casua1ty a WCG representative stated;

"I am from World Cyber Games and I have not been made aware or had any complaints lodged.

All players, no matter what they are wearing will be welcome at the event. CityHunter has not tried to, or specified, that they have this requirement to us, and therefore cannot act on our behalf to enforce this.

Come to the event, and if anyone tries to kick you out, I will make sure the admins are aware of the situation, and they will deal with it "



From this, it looks like some kind of miscommunication must have occurred so what do you propose?

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by riiChard

I was actually in contact with someone who had contact with the "tournament director" and I was informed that we were allowed to wear our sponsored uniforms to the WCG City Hunter event. So I basically assumed that communication had occurred between WCG and City Hunter on this issue but then I figured that WCG and City Hunter didn't communicate with each other over this matter after I saw your post today. (I was referred to this email if I wanted to escalate things j.gray@tlsolutions.com.au)


A quote from a post on Team Liquid forums from Casua1ty a WCG representative stated;

"I am from World Cyber Games and I have not been made aware or had any complaints lodged.

All players, no matter what they are wearing will be welcome at the event. CityHunter has not tried to, or specified, that they have this requirement to us, and therefore cannot act on our behalf to enforce this.

Come to the event, and if anyone tries to kick you out, I will make sure the admins are aware of the situation, and they will deal with it "



From this, it looks like some kind of miscommunication must have occurred so what do you propose?

can I ask who you spoke to who had contact from City Hunter? because only myself and my boss have any contact with the tournament organizer, in regards to the miscommunication that is clearly something that has to be followed up,

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Chris@CityHunter

can I ask who you spoke to who had contact from City Hunter? because only myself and my boss have any contact with the tournament organizer, in regards to the miscommunication that is clearly something that has to be followed up,

I'll be pm-ing you

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by riiChard

I'll be pm-ing you

I appreciate it