[Satiini]

The scam that is phoenix esports!

Hello,

Some of you might know me and some might not, nevertheless im here to expose the scammer that is pXTroy.

I recently joined the Australian team Phoenix esports, they were eager to make an contract with me first for 3 months, promising me a starting salary in the contract, in this thread I will shortly explain the way this pXTroy guy lied to me several times and did not end up holding his end at all. When I was joining the team I actually mentioned to him that I was previously in an european team that ended up not paying what they were supposed to me, sadly in midlevel teams in esports there is alot of scamming like this going on. He told me this would never happen in phoenix esports. At the end of the first Month when I asked first to recieve the salary there were some "delays" supposedly the money was coming from another guy supporting phoenix esports, some guy called James who was also a part of phoenix esports.

[8/29/2013 16:10:57] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): James has told me he can only pay $100 right now but can pay the other $100 on wednesday
[8/29/2013 16:11:00] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): is that okay?
[8/29/2013 16:11:33] Matti Bäckström: thats okay
[8/29/2013 16:11:51] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry about that, he forgot how late in the month it was
[8/29/2013 16:12:00] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): he will send the $100 tomorrow morning

[8/30/2013 17:04:48] Matti Bäckström: whatsup...
[8/31/2013 3:29:57] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Hey, has James sent the $100?
[8/31/2013 3:45:44] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I'm away from home at the moment so sorry about missing your messages last night
[8/31/2013 8:23:26] Matti Bäckström: nope, he didnt

[8/31/2013 10:03:44] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Did you get it sorted out?
[8/31/2013 10:06:09] Matti Bäckström: he said he would do it but nothing happened
[8/31/2013 10:09:55] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sigh
[8/31/2013 10:09:59] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): ill get onto him
[8/31/2013 10:10:07] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry about this
[8/31/2013 11:25:47] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): hey
[8/31/2013 11:25:53] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I believe its been sent now?
[8/31/2013 11:35:54] Matti Bäckström: 50... ?
[8/31/2013 11:35:58] Matti Bäckström: he sent only 50 ?

At this point he was also actually considering picking up ANOTHER player with a salary, amazing...

[9/3/2013 16:36:11] Matti Bäckström: btw
[9/3/2013 16:36:18] Matti Bäckström: about the jersey?
[9/3/2013 16:36:20] Matti Bäckström: whats the situation
[9/4/2013 10:03:25] Matti Bäckström: .... thx for answering, and he still didnt send the money btw
[9/4/2013 10:03:35] Matti Bäckström: this is what I was talking about before I joined
[9/4/2013 10:03:46] Matti Bäckström: when I was talking about some earlier teams

Also some talk about Jersey which I never actually recieved, doubt anyone else did either, this was the first time he decided not to answer to me, magically he had fell "asleep"

[9/5/2013 11:05:28] Matti Bäckström: this feels like a really long day
[9/5/2013 11:07:34] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Has he still not sent it?
[9/5/2013 11:07:36] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): For **** sake
[9/5/2013 11:10:39] Matti Bäckström: nop he didnt send it ...
[9/5/2013 11:11:20] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Ahh ill call him again, his going through a divorce with his wife so his been pretty busy. But he has said he will pay for like 2 days now
[9/5/2013 11:11:25] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Im sorry about this
[9/5/2013 11:12:18] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Btw PXL Qualifier 2 is on in 1 hour and 15 minutes
[9/5/2013 11:12:22] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): just so you do remember
[9/5/2013 11:12:27] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): are you still playing in it?
[9/5/2013 11:12:29] Matti Bäckström: His problems should not really affect me to be honest, with not getting the money in time now I have problems
[9/5/2013 11:13:10] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I agree, I've asked him to send it for 2 days. if you don't have within the next 2 hours ill pay it

To this date he has still not paid it himself

[9/5/2013 15:10:06] Matti Bäckström: will you send that money before end of today?
[9/5/2013 15:22:09] Matti Bäckström: this is getting really tiresome, you remember the past teams I spoke of ?
[9/5/2013 15:22:19] Matti Bäckström: this time I will not stand by and watch the same happen again
[9/5/2013 15:24:26] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry was watching the stream
[9/5/2013 15:24:40] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): like i said earlier if its not in by 11 (30 minutes) then ill get it
[9/6/2013 16:09:22] Matti Bäckström: ??
[9/6/2013 16:09:26] Matti Bäckström: what seems to be the problem
[9/6/2013 16:09:28] Matti Bäckström: why do you keep lying to me
[9/6/2013 16:09:34] Matti Bäckström: there is still nothing in my paypal

Long 2 hours ;D

[9/8/2013 11:56:02] Matti Bäckström: yes
[9/8/2013 11:57:01] Matti Bäckström: so you will not pay it up ?
[9/8/2013 11:58:05] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I will try, i honestly have like $20 my self at the moment
[9/8/2013 11:58:53] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): And without me borrowing money of someone i should have another $130 (to pay your $150) by about Wednesday so thats the earliest i can pay MY SELF

I also heard there is other people aswell he has had delays with or has not paid at all, he also forgot my paypal like 4 times and at one point didnt even remember how much he was supposed to pay to me. After the problems appeared he kept ignoring and fake afking me alot, he will certainly try to reply to this thread that it was this "JAMES" guy who was supposed to pay, but im pretty sure from these messages
everyone can see that he still quaranteed to pay it himself, afterwards realizing he could not do it at all. So as a warning to anyone who is going to any business or dealings with this person, should watch out, you're about to be lied to!
Also I've met alot of scammers like this before, this is a very typical way in midlevel esports teams were the sponsors or such pay to the managers, the managers then keep the money to themselves, maybe send a little part of the money to where
its actually supposed to go, but keep the majority to themselves and then claim to the players/ tournament winners or such that they never acutally recieve it themselves, sadly most of the time even the sponsors are not aware of this.

Im sad that this had to happen I was eager to get to know the Australian scene abit better, qualifying to pxl season 1 and all, sadly I've also decided not to play that aswell since mr troy is also a part of running that tournament, most likely again
keeping the money in his own pockets and continuing his little scam.

ps. excuse my grammar mistakes, english is not my primary language

Regards Matti "Satiini" Bäckström

[asdfSchnitzel]

10char

[eCKo`Switch]

Originally Posted by ToRSchnitzel

10char

1char10char

[syfRize]

Lets find troy's house. ;o

Quick Comments

	ToRDjvillian:	I know where he lives :P
	TtSYF.tRoy:	OH PLZ NO! NOOOT DJVILLIAN!

[syfSoundwave]

Troy is like, 15 years old. I've met him in real life and I sincerely believe he really didn't wish you anything bad. I think he might have been seeking to bolster his team, Phoenix e-sports, because he told me a month or so ago that his team was going through tough times. Troy has run LANs and things before and weekly tournaments and as far as I know has always followed through with payment. I think he was honestly just a little bit in over his head and trying to pick up a big name without considering the potential ramifications if he couldn't pay you quickly.

[RuineD]

well.
10char

[Fenner]

From the logs it does seem as if it wasn't meant to be troy paying you but James. Troy says that James is paying you all along.

So it seems like James screwed you both over, I don't see how Troy is scamming you unless this James fella is fake... But you have no evidence to prove that.

[HuT]

Originally Posted by fray`fenner

From the logs it does seem as if it wasn't meant to be troy paying you but James. Troy says that James is paying you all along.

So it seems like James screwed you both over, I don't see how Troy is scamming you unless this James fella is fake... But you have no evidence to prove that.

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:	LOL
	syfRize:	LOLOL
	syfSoundwave:	Legit laughed IRL
	Fenner:	A+++
	Seffy:	Perfect.
	DUCKVILLELOL:	Magical
	syfChase:	This is beautiful +1000
	VB_Blake:	xD

[BearPack]

Too many naive people thinking they can make a steady income falling for traps of "income" from kids they barely know trying to run "pro teams". Welcome to reality, you've made the same mistake twice, try not to do it again.

Quick Comments

	syfRize:	+1!!
	mGGDaedalus:	^^

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Just wanted to echo some of the sentiments Satiini is saying. But in relation to the pX weekly which Troy has been running very successfully over a long period of time.

Two of my players (Wally & ZenAku) each won pX weekly tournaments recently and they were not paid until a few weeks after where I had to constantly bug Troy to make the payments. I was met with an array of excuses on why he couldn't pay up and the payment was delayed as a result.

Eventually, on Monday the 16th, payment DID come through to my bank account. I was happy that I got the money for my players eventually but the wait time was unacceptable for somebody who runs consistent weekly events.

During my wait for payment, I also began to ask around SEA to see whether or not past pX weekly winners had been paid as I felt this kind of ineptness shouldn't be tolerated if it isn't only just me who has experienced it.

I spoke to x5.PiG who still has not been paid his $20 for two pX wins.

I was informed that DanO, having won 3 pX weeklies, is STILL yet to be paid (not 100% certain on this, word from Spartaz who asked DanO for me).

I also approached Arthur, due to his difficult English I am yet to confirm whether or not he has actually been paid but nothing promising has presented itself.

All in all, Troy does run a great event, the pX weekly is a wonderful thing for the competitive SEA scene and I look forward to seeing players compete in it often.
But when you are so late in payments, especially when you say in one instance "yes I'm fairly sure I've payed X player" but then 2 days later it turns out you haven't paid them all, you begin to cast yourself either as a liar OR a lazy and incompetent tournament organizer.

I don't want the pX weekly to go away, Troy has the right intentions but he is shooting himself in the foot by not promptly paying players for winning his events. Even though it is a small amount of money, it is the principle that counts. Tournament organizers should pride themselves on the legitimacy of their events in paying up what they promise.

Personally, and I know this is the case for others I have spoken to, finding out how dodgy some of these payments have been brings doubt and scepticism regarding the pX League.

EVEN IF Troy manages to pay EVERYBODY off in the next 24 hours, it is irrelevant.

It shouldn't take weeks, or in some cases MONTHS, to pay a measly $10 prize. You need to be called out on this Troy. Nothing personal, just something I believe people need to know about.

EDIT: If people want skype logs & specific dates regarding wait times I will happily oblige in posting them.

[Satiini]

Hut missed the part where he convinced many times that he would pay it himself ? And I dont care about his age, if his a kid that cant take care of stuff then he should not be running anything. And bearpack I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams and few of those were the teams on very top back when I was playing warcraft III, most of them totally reliable, scammers and liers like this troy guy should be crushed like the cockroaches they are.

Quick Comments

Matt93:

So I guess you're Finnished? Couldn't stop myself.

[Cyanide]

Originally Posted by Satiini

Hut missed the part where he convinced many times that he would pay it himself ? And I dont care about his age, if his a kid that cant take care of stuff then he should not be running anything. And bearpack I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams and few of those were the teams on very top back when I was playing warcraft III, most of them totally reliable, scammers and liers like this troy guy should be crushed like the cockroaches they are.

Wow...harsh much?

Tournament organizers have such a thankless job.

Regardless, if it's a scam or not, due investigations should be done. Send out the fenners!

[SLCN.ARze]

Troy and px #1!!

Quick Comments

Snx.FigJig:

mundane useless post #81 by arze

[ETL.snexwang]

Quick Comments

syfMightyKiwi:

That a char from Guilty Crown?

[Baldie]

I can personally testify Troy is a man I would happily entrust to admin my tournaments. He has proven multiple times to be loyal and willing to contribute to the scene and has stepped in multiple times at the last minute.

Admittedly I have not dealt with Troy from a financial level which is what this conversation is primarily about and it seems there are valid concerns and I hope Troy takes the feedback and learns from it. The lad means well, not that it justifies not paying people, however I would not be so quick to put him in the "scammer" basket. I'd like to think I know Troy well enough to confidently say he would not pocket money for himself, he just may promise money he doesn't have which is a lesson he'll need to learn he cannot afford to do (no pun intended).

[SLCNPezz]

Originally Posted by Baldie

I can personally testify Troy is a man I would happily entrust to admin my tournaments. He has proven multiple times to be loyal and willing to contribute to the scene and has stepped in multiple times at the last minute.

Admittedly I have not dealt with Troy from a financial level which is what this conversation is primarily about and it seems there are valid concerns and I hope Troy takes the feedback and learns from it. The lad means well, not that it justifies not paying people, however I would not be so quick to put him in the "scammer" basket. I'd like to think I know Troy well enough to confidently say he would not pocket money for himself, he just may promise money he doesn't have which is a lesson he'll need to learn he cannot afford to do (no pun intended).

Seems accurate. Baldie the most reasonable person in SEAsports.

Troys a nice guy, I'm sure it was just him over-estimating his financial situation. In the future he should only promise what he has.

[SLCN.Wally]

I'm going to weigh in a bit on the px weekly subject. I urged troy many times to not continue running px weekly's whilst he was still in debt to player's, but he continued to. When the 17th (return) weekly appeared I thought that maybe everyone had been paid but I later found out that was wrong.

This isn't a negative comment towards troy, I'm actually still good friends with him, but Troy you really need to learn that it's not good to lie through your teeth until someone figures you out, instead of running more tournaments figure out a way to pay people the money you owe first. I know your intentions are good but it really doesn't do anyone, especially you, any good to do this.

[Satiini]

Ruining his status? his doing it pretty well himself, atleast in my opinion you simply CANNOT lie to people like this, it determines what you are, atleast in Finland we do not make a habbit out of lying to people. You can say what you want about him trying to improve esports in AUS, with this single action he has made more damage to your whole scene than he could ever make good, I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd if you guys keep petting guys like troy in the head after he lies repeatedly to people....

[SLCN.CautioN]

Originally Posted by Satiini

Ruining his status? his doing it pretty well himself, atleast in my opinion you simply CANNOT lie to people like this, it determines what you are, atleast in Finland we do not make a habbit out of lying to people. You can say what you want about him trying to improve esports in AUS, with this single action he has made more damage to your whole scene than he could ever make good, I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd if you guys keep petting guys like troy in the head after he lies repeatedly to people....

Alright mate, we geddit you're as mad as a cut snake... but crikey you don't have to go off spitting on the bbq and ruining all of Australia's national identity purely because of this little incident as well as the backing up of other blokes... We value our mateship in this country and we defend our mates... We are all blokes of the same semantic field and we will stand strong.

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	The aussie is strong in this one
	syfChase:	Buckley's chance of a dole bludger on these tall poppies
	Malice:	I'm guessing you are taking English Language? :P
	VB_Blake:	oath mate

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by SLCN.CautioN

Alright mate, we geddit you're as mad as a cute snake... but crikey you don't have to go off spitting on the bbq and ruining all of Australia's national identity purely because of this little incident as well as the backing up of other blokes... We value our mateship in this country and we defend our mates... We are all blokes of the same semantic field and we will stand strong.

We do the same in finland, untill someone starts cheating and lying, then he gets what he deserves. Maybe you are offering to pay what he owes me instead then? Since you like holding his hand anyway apparently.

[yongming]

Originally Posted by Satiini

I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd if you guys keep petting guys like troy in the head after he lies repeatedly to people....

stay classy

[RuineD]

make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Originally Posted by Av.RuineD

make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.

I agree that turning this into a witch hunt against troy is the wrong way to go about things. And yes I can only assume James is the donator Troy has told to me about (randomly went AWOL afaik)

Either way, if you permit me to hijack this, on a similar vein nonetheless, people still haven't been paid for multiple pX weekly wins. It doesn't matter "how good your intentions are" or "how young you are".

As a tournament organizer you have a responsibility to pay what you publicly offer. Troy deserves to be called out on this and people need to recognize it is unacceptable. If you are lagging behind in payments you don't start up more events and then when asked to pay up for previous tournaments tell people you don't have the money. It just comes across as a lack of organization and inexperience. You should ensure all your affairs are in order before proceeding with new investments or endeavors.

Yes Troy is quite young so sure, I accept he is new to all this, but it isn't an excuse in its own right.

So long as he acknowledges his mistakes, learns from them, and pays up what he owes I'll be happy.

Quick Comments

	MezjE:	Why do you think your opinion is wanted? Snx and Myth are going well lmao.
	TCPLemminks:	^ HOW DO I REACH THESE KIDSSSSSSSSSS

[RuineD]

"I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd"

wow you're really mature. your response to me asking for his side of the story is to trash the australian scene because of one bad experience. if you're so professional you'd at least try to wait until this is resolved before shit canning something you literally have no relationship to.

[Satiini]

You should have read it till the end, they will only see it like this if you pet people who scam on the head, I would say its very understandable. And I've heard his side of the story already, he had no interest in trying to even resolve it, just decided not to pay it. That is all I need to know about a person so I can start "shit canning" people like you put it. In EU and NA scene scammers are outcasts whom people spit on.

[Eddie]

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

Quick Comments

	NDG.Stitch:	I love you Eddie
	Lokth:	Pretty sure Im still waiting on $10 from a GPD win eddy :P not that I care <3
	Reere:	+1
	VorteX:	=1

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

I cut of the random parts where im just asking if his around, and also random talk about other things cups / what we were going to play in the future and what he wanted me to play and so on, because I was still planning to remain in the team because I thought he was trustworthy.

[pX_kiss]

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

Quick Comments

	syfPhoenix:	Who are you? o.O
	SLCN.Wally:	who the ****?!?!?! when did troy become not head of px
	syfRize:	Burn the witch!

[VB_Blake]

Originally Posted by pX_kiss

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

I have been mildly out of touch with everything pX lately, but I am 90% sure this guy is not legit.

As for the thread; Throughout my time in pX I have never really received anything as a player, no payment or gear or jersey's, but I always found that acceptable because as a team it was our collective duty to perform in order to attract sponsors in order to receive goodies from sponsors. Troy admirably tried to make things happen, but often to no avail. I feel this should reflect on the situation, as it shows Troy as simply a guy who wants things to be better for the people he is responsible for. I have no reason to doubt he had pure intentions about this and merely saw a way to improve the pX name. A way that was attractive enough to make him neglect securing a reliable source of income. The 'contract' that was made was not official, but regardless I think a quasi-contract existed and its because of this degree Troy should bare responsibility for this situation, not James (which it appears he has).

That said, he should only bare blame for an honest mistake by relying on someone who was not reliable, and for promising things he was not sure could be delivered. Not as a scammer or someone who had ulterior motives to his actions. Hopefully Troy can reflect on what happened here and try to avoid similar mistakes.

Edit: pXKiss is James, manager of the CoD division and apparently manager of the entire team now.

Quick Comments

SLCN.CautioN:

+1

[SLCN.Kez]

Can also attest that troy is pretty legit from what I've personally seen. He was fantastic at ACL Melbourne running around organizing things, and I lost my shit when I found out he was only 15, as he acted much more professional and mature than that. It appears he has a few issues with this james fellow, and also about managing expectations from players. As often players won't mind if it takes you a few weeks to pay, as long as you communicate to them exactly when you will have the money by and follow it up.

Please don't turn this into a witch hunt and smear Troy's name with little evidence and a few skype logs. He has begun doing really great things in the community and would be a shame to have him quit because he thinks people don't appreciate what he is doing, or feels that people don't want him around anymore.

If more dodgy things turn up or occur then perhaps it's time to re-asses the situation by for now errybody just chill out. And by everyone I mean satiini.

[RuineD]

satiini, you're basically letting everyone here see you as a self-entitled prick. if you want anyone to think of your post with any sense of respect or understanding i suggest u mature up.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.ARze:	+1
	Lokth:	Apparenty not being payed is considered 'self entitlled', you dont mind working for me for free then?

[Seffy]

Originally Posted by Av.RuineD

satiini, you're basically letting everyone here see you as a self-entitled prick. if you want anyone to think of your post with any sense of respect or understanding i suggest u mature up.

Quick Comments

syfChase:

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif looping version pls

[SLCN.Kez]

You know shit is getting real when ruined is telling someone to act more mature.

(ILY ruined stay mirin)

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	ez
	ToRPandarine:	#1 post all year imo
	SLCN.ARze:	hahaha

[mGGAequitas]

calm down


teehee I'm participating in drama

[Sc2Clare]

lol... hilarious~~~~ would read it again yo~~

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

lol

[SLCN.Wally]

No one is against you satiini, people just want you to calm down because we know you're angry but you have to realise going off the Skype logs most people here aren't going to immediately side with you. also calling someone a scammer is quite a bold term as I doubt troy makes any money from not paying you. No one doesn't want you to get paid, but instead of going off the deep end at them, you have to realise their point of view.

Quick Comments

RuineD:

im against him.

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Wally

No one is against you satiini, people just want you to calm down because we know you're angry but you have to realise going off the Skype logs most people here aren't going to immediately side with you. also calling someone a scammer is quite a bold term as I doubt troy makes any money from not paying you. No one doesn't want you to get paid, but instead of going off the deep end at them, you have to realise their point of view.

May I also add, as a community person (sortaish), SEA server is the SEA, a few other Asian countries and the Oceanic region smashed into one server. We're pretty small. Even smaller when you think about where everyone actually goes to play (NA or KR mostly). And we're a pretty close knit community.

And by extension, the community here at sc2sea is just as close knit. Calling a member who has done quite a bit for the community is big. It's even bigger if its out of the blue. Even bigger if your very first post is that.

So, yea of course we'll not side with you at first. But that doesn't mean we're against you. We listen, we think about it (mostly...sometimes we just act without thinking!) and then we'll decide what to do.

And it helps not to be snarky or call us a pile of turds. Not the best of ways to start your PR.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

This is... embarrassing for everyone involved.

Do some research before you expect a salary from a team.

Wow.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Wally:	this too
	LordByrnsy:	+1

[Infected]

Quick Comments

	mGGSlayer:	LOL
	Seffy:	GOLD

[MezjE]

At least you got a reply each day, meanwhile at AV.

Anyway this was to be expected, look at Rogue's comment, James sounds like an idiot.

[Seffy]

+1 to Wally.

First of all, you might wanna manner up mate.

Secondly, you need more evidence. Calling out publicly and very boldly like this with barely any evidence but a Skype chat doesn't give the full story. Everyone here knows Troy pretty well admin-wise; he's pretty good at it as said by others.

So yeah, I suggest you provide more evidence, and try to write it out more constructively and telling it to us in more detail.

Btw I'm not meaning to be rude or anything but did you end up joining pX out of desperation since you couldn't find a team? I mean, they're cool guys and all but it seems to me you really didn't research this thoroughly enough.

Quick Comments

Matt93:

2 dozen teams without protection, oh man.

[syfChadMann]

Quick Comments

asdfSchnitzel:

this is chad irl

[UHF]

This is getting off topic. There are two accusations and one added by Domo:

1. Phoenix was not abiding by the terms of the contract given to Satiini.
2. Troy was trying to do damage control but that included lying to Satiini by saying he would cover the shortcomings Satiini was owed, when Troy he never had the ability to do so.
3. Multiple sums of money not paid by the pX weekly.

Satiini is obviously angry and lashing out, and has made threats on the basis that nothing gets done about the situation - I get it, I'm ******* angry too when people don't pay up.

There's no need for the greater community to bait him into getting more upset, just so you can poke fun of him afterwards when he gets more angry. Wait for Phoenix to respond, or others directly affected.

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	the guy baited the entire aus community. what'd u expect?
	SLCN.Wally:	yes exactly
	ThatGuyDoMo:	would also like to mention what i said about px weekly money, seems relevant
	mGGDaedalus:	+1

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by UHF

This is getting off topic. There are two accusations and one added by Domo:

1. Phoenix was not abiding by the terms of the contract given to Satiini.
2. Troy was trying to do damage control but that included lying to Satiini by saying he would cover the shortcomings Satiini was owed, when Troy he never had the ability to do so.
3. Multiple sums of money not paid by the pX weekly.

Satiini is obviously angry and lashing out, and has made threats on the basis that nothing gets done about the situation - I get it, I'm ******* angry too when people don't pay up.

There's no need for the greater community to bait him into getting more upset, just so you can poke fun of him afterwards when he gets more angry. Wait for Phoenix to respond, or others directly affected.

Im glad someone actually understood what it was about, instead of just buddying up with someone they apparently know since years long ago, money changes everything especially in hands of a young guy, I know many who have started scamming when money got involved. Eventually this thread was just to let people know that they should watch out, tbh I know and accepted I would never get the money immidietly after the first time he said it would come on a date, and it didnt come. Personally I could not care less what you do with the info I gave you, feel free to do what you want and when money starts getting involved maybe even more you'll start wondering where it all went In few days I will forget about this thread and everything included to it, good luck to you guys and I hope you dont lose too much money on the first time to him.

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	enjoy being relevant in the EU scene, good luck.
	SLCN.Wally:	you're being more immature ruined. as expected ALL IS RIGHT

[SLCN.Kez]

Also one thing I would like to point out, this literally happens over a period of like 8 or 9 days. That is not a very long time at all to call someone a scammer and thing they're full of shit because its taken 8 or 9 days to sort out payment

[syfChadMann]

In all seriousness, was there a signed contract involved? (Haven't read all the thread)

If not, move on.

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	no evidence of that has been provided yet.
	mGGAequitas:	yes, now what?

[SLCN.NXZ]

So basically troy did indeed lie to you. He said he would pay you, he didn't. The general consensus is that yes he was in the wrong but by no means was he intentionally out to screw you over and he does a lot of good things in the community despite these issues. Now if you'd come out, posted your logs, said that it was unprofessional and raised the issue, without calling him a scammer, there wouldn't be a problem here.

Your saying for us to kick someone out who has done a lot for the tournament scene in SEA and calling him a liar, cheat and scammer. We're replying that while he is in the wrong here he isnt as bad as you make it out to be and public defamation of this level isn't really required. With basically every post you make its making us side more with the person we are familiar with and not the one insulting him. Stay professional and I'm sure it can be sorted out without this much issue.

Quick Comments

	Seffy:	Truth. :)
	SLCN.Kez:	Couldn't have said it better myself
	SLCN.ARze:	well said ncz

[Myth.ForbZ]

I'm so happy Abbott won.

Quick Comments

RuineD:

quality contribution, as per usual.

[SLCN.Kez]

Only thing more annoying than being an immature prick is being a facetious immature prick.

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

#winnerwinner

[ChowMuddha]

Just curious, does anyone in sea even get a salary?

Quick Comments

	ThatGuyDoMo:	i thought PiG did afaik?
	SLCN.Wally:	yes
	SLCN.Kez:	A few have, but it's very little, and only the top 2-3 players would qualify for it
	SLCN.NXZ:	PiG does not recieve a salary. To my knowlege, neither do Nv or fray players. May be wrong however
	ROOTPetraeus:	No fray/Nv players are on salary but I thought PiG was o.o How the **** does he survive.
	syfSoundwave:	Pretty sure Mindfreak paid salary but obviously they're not relevant to SC2 anymore :P
	rezyn8:	SLCN team gets paid in rez love
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	serpapic nexus pays salary kez?
	SLCNPezz:	I get paid a salary but I guess I'm a much better player than the rest of SEA.
	Malice:	avant gave me 10 salaries
	sR.Kumo:	^ LOL #winner

[ROOTPetraeus]

Just want to add, it took me several months to chase up the money I was owed from pX tournaments. Although Troy seems to be a good guy and I don't think he is responsible for the money involved, he blatantly lied to me on several occasions and made many promises that weren't kept. I think if he was more honest/informed about the money situation, it would be a lot better for everyone involved.

Quick Comments

ThatGuyDoMo:

thankyou, exactly what i've been trying to add to this

[TtSYF.tRoy]

I would like to personally apologise to everyone involved in this ugly scenario.
Ive learnt a really important lesson that you cant promise things whether this is money or solid prizes or team gear if you cant actually supply this.
I will contact everyone from pX weekly that i have delayed payment, and i WILL be more organised with payments in the future.
I also apologise to the SEA scene for this.

Quick Comments

	ProAnnn:	(Y) MANLY RESPONSE. I SARPORT(SUPPORT) YOU
	SLCN.ARze:	troy #1!

[syfChase]

Guys I'm back I just got internet again

Guys what did I miss?

Quick Comments

ace223:

Good call, you win the internet tonight

[Pandan]

Seems like a young kid with good intentions bit off more than he could chew.

Originally Posted by Satiini

Also I've met alot of scammers like this before, this is a very typical way in midlevel esports teams were the sponsors or such pay to the managers, the managers then keep the money to themselves, maybe send a little part of the money to where
its actually supposed to go, but keep the majority to themselves and then claim to the players/ tournament winners or such that they never acutally recieve it themselves, sadly most of the time even the sponsors are not aware of this.

I would think its unlikely that this kid received 'sponsor' money. It's not theft, it's an overzealous kid with plans of grandeur.

Originally Posted by Satiini

I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams

1: Define 'pro'
2: Two dozen? If that's even remotely accurate, it's not a stat to be used to sound impressive; I'd be embarrassed.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Wise truths.

[ToRSpookToR]

best of luck to everyone involved looks like a great opportunity!!!

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	ROFL
	mGGSlayer:	LOL
	Plottel:	Go crawl back in your hole, come back when you have something interesting to say.
	RuineD:	av regrets
	|Erasmus|:	Best post 2013
	Baldie:	LOL

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Wow so looking forward to this

[syfChadMann]

ctrl+f tgun

0/10

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

ctrl+f chadmann :: even more disappointed :l

[ETL.snexwang]

I keep reading "tRoy" as T-Roy a la "T-Pain".

I'm never going to stop doing this.

Quick Comments

sR.Kumo:

well at least I know it's not just me now

[syfChadMann]

I was going to post this in the other thread about new management for pX - after clicking on a chatbox link to the thread. Then realised it was totally out of context to the thread so I'm posting here instead.

Originally Posted by Satiini

what exactly do my results have to do with anything ?

I think people are trying to justify not giving you a salary.. ala 'you're not worth a salary'. Which is subjective and no one is allowed to answer that except for the guy that offers you salary. The issue isn't 'should he even get a salary' its 'this guy was told he would get X and didn't - thats bad'

Satiinii, I would cut your losses and just walk away from pX and move on with your life. How much is even owed anyway? How old are you (just out of personal interest - gives a bit of clarity to the issue)? and was the agreement to pay you in your contract, and was that contract signed?

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

nice to see a voice of reason in here

[VB_Blake]

Chad I believe it was 200 (for the one month?), and I heard talk/rumours of a contract but I don't believe one was actually signed, properly drafted.

That said, I wasn't involved in this situation so I am going by assumptions I gathered from sporadically checking the skype chat/this thread

[VorteX]

Originally Posted by Eddie

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

It's always good to give us the context of the Chats.

Simple:

Don't Promise anything, on what you can't deliver or act upon.

Do your research first before committing to anything.