[Dox]

See, it's posts like these which are truly a waste of time.

Originally Posted by frequency

She's an idiot, and so is her boyfriend.

You blindly ignored the fact that what I quoted was written by John Gottman, not her, or her boyfriend. So your absent opinion on the two of them contributed absolutely NOTHING to this thread, and ironically, that's the exact topic the post was addressing.

Originally Posted by Unstable

I'm Trying to figure out if you just don't understand what is needed to grow something like this, or are just against any criticism whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure I have a fairly good idea considering I spent the last entire decade doing just that.

I have never said this was a waste of time for an event.

I don't know where this came from, I never accused you of that.

and to see someone with the financial backing coming in and completely wasting it. is unnacceptable.

I think there's a very big difference between "wasting" and "not fully capitalising." If we did not meet with Nick Popov and highlight all of their mistakes, and guide them towards a more successful future event, then it would have been a complete waste. But we did meet with him. And he is aware of their mistakes, their lack of promotion, their short notice, their lack of stream and coverage, everything. So it wasn't all for nothing. We now have an opportunity to work closely with Nick to ensure the next event is done 100% correctly. To me, I see that as a very valuable and successful building block. You can whinge and complain that it "should have been done right the first time" but it's a fact of life. Nothing's ever perfect straight out of the box.

So lets look at the NRG event with $25,000 in prizes etc. Thats $25,000 that saw a total of about 200 people (im doubling up numbers due to qualifiers etc) that were directly involved. Add in live updates + live coverage. i see at least 500k unique hits. and this is a conservative number considering the last fxo event for $1500 had 200k hits

Just to be clear, their goals most definitely don't align with FXO's goals. They just wanted to generate local hype with this event. They got more than they bargained for when interstate players started showing up. (Incidentally some articles appeared on websites such as ESFI World anyway.)

What is the point in that.............. People will not care about just results to something unless they had no interest in watching the event anyway and just want to see who won. Keeping spectators in the loop. I mean cmon dude, updating challonge and having a link to it in the OP of TL/sc2sea etc is really hard? its 10x easier to what they were doing at the event.

I'm just going to ask you to read my previous post again because this entire paragraph is invalid. I wasn't suggesting how things should be, I was just explaining how things have been for the past 12 years. It really frustrates me when I write something clearly and I'm taken for an idiot when someone doesn't read it properly.

If an event is to succeed in todays environment, these kinds of things are not just needed, they are critical to an events success. . SO if people want the event to be a success they SHOULD expect it.

Of course, I never suggested otherwise. I was merely pointing out that there was uproar over the lack of live coverage when this sort of thing has never happened in any local Australian event before. If this doesn't make sense, please say so and I'll clarify further with a list of examples.

WHAT? dude no, close your mouth before you embarass yourself.

There's no need to be rude.

Like i said above, no infastructure limitations exist for their event. it is 100% doable. and same benefits? where would the following be

Sorry I didn't mean to imply a specific event, I just meant for StarCraft 2 in general. I think I worded that poorly though.


Now I'm going to do my best to be as succinct as possible here in clarifying each and every point I've been trying to make:

* I'm not saying negative feedback is bad or useless. It's valuable. Critical, even.

* "____ is f_cking shit" does not qualify as feedback. It's just blind raging. The article I linked in my previous post explains this very clearly.

* I've watched the rise and fall of dozens of Australian "eSports ventures" over the last decade. It's all well and good to put in whatever effort you can squeeze in after your 9-5 each day, but I worked directly under WCG, Samsung, CBN Media, Blizzard Entertainment and various other pillars for nearly a whole decade. 15+ hours a day, 7 days a week. I was commentating huge cash tournaments on a stage in front of thousands of people in the Melbourne Exhibition Center 7 years ago. I was employed full-time to fly around the country and co-ordinate qualifiers for global events and amongst it all - I can guarantee you that each and every time, it was community negativity that caused the scene to crash. There was always plenty of money, plenty of sponsors and plenty of interest. But these communities tore themselves apart. And they were a lot bigger and a lot closer than the current SC2 community is.

* And thus, the reason I'm so enthusiastically begging people to keep a clear, mature and constructive state of mind is to avoid yet another repetition in this historical cycle of failure. I simply don't want to see it happen again with another game. Work together, don't flame eachother, and most importantly, don't trash talk the people who fail to deliver perfection the first time they try their hand at something. Everything comes with time and experience.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by Dox

I think there's a very big difference between "wasting" and "not fully capitalising." If we did not meet with Nick Popov and highlight all of their mistakes, and guide them towards a more successful future event, then it would have been a complete waste. But we did meet with him. And he is aware of their mistakes, their lack of promotion, their short notice, their lack of stream and coverage, everything. So it wasn't all for nothing. We now have an opportunity to work closely with Nick to ensure the next event is done 100% correctly. To me, I see that as a very valuable and successful building block. You can whinge and complain that it "should have been done right the first time" but it's a fact of life. Nothing's ever perfect straight out of the box.

I never expected them to be perfect the first time around. i do however expect them to do some research at all. Simple things like, format, maps and how to do brackets would have taken all of an hour? if that of simple googling. I agree with you that its good they are listening to the feedback, however it is very clear they didn't do any research whatsoever in the first place.

Originally Posted by Dox

Just to be clear, their goals most definitely don't align with FXO's goals. They just wanted to generate local hype with this event. They got more than they bargained for when interstate players started showing up. (Incidentally some articles appeared on websites such as ESFI World anyway.)

Dude, i was not comparing fxo and nrg's goals, i was comparing the expectations for their sponsor backers. which most definatly are the same since they are both businesses, but on that subject. FXO's Goals "To create a regular and sustainable tournaments for the sc2 international community" all you have to do is change international to Australian and you will find they are exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Dox

I'm just going to ask you to read my previous post again because this entire paragraph is invalid. I wasn't suggesting how things should be, I was just explaining how things have been for the past 12 years. It really frustrates me when I write something clearly and I'm taken for an idiot when someone doesn't read it properly.

Just because something has been done a certain way previously doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to expect differently. That is why people are not understanding why you are defending their position.

Originally Posted by Dox

Of course, I never suggested otherwise. I was merely pointing out that there was uproar over the lack of live coverage when this sort of thing has never happened in any local Australian event before. If this doesn't make sense, please say so and I'll clarify further with a list of examples.

We seem to be going in circles, You come with it hasn't happened in the AU scene before so why do we expect it. And i come back with "this is whats required for a successful event" Online streaming is one of the tipping points that has made E-Sports viable from a business/sponsor backing perspective. It has become mandatory for any event, and why they didn't take the time to look into it screams that they have 2 possible trains of thought which i will elaborate at the end.

Originally Posted by Dox

And thus, the reason I'm so enthusiastically begging people to keep a clear, mature and constructive state of mind is to avoid yet another repetition in this historical cycle of failure. I simply don't want to see it happen again with another game. Work together, don't flame eachother, and most importantly, don't trash talk the people who fail to deliver perfection the first time they try their hand at something. Everything comes with time and experience.

Before I say what I am about to, i will make very clear that I already offered to run their Coverage for their next event, including setup of all the live streaming hardware, configuration and multi language casters to help with the event.

There is a difference between getting something almost right and room to improve on their first attempt. To what happened at NRG the first time around. It was very clear they did little to no research at all. The fact that they are so ready to listen to the community screams multiple possible things to me.

1) They are just saying so to keep gamers happy, which has been done before and they will attempt to improve but it will not happen in time for their sponsors to b e happy.

2) they are doing a backhanded way of trying to get the gaming community to do their job for them. It became very clear that this could be their plan after a comment made to me at the end of the event of "I wont be organising this again gamers will be organising it". While at first glance this can be interpreted as a "sweet they will let the most experienced handle it" it also can be that they wish to pass the burden about organising the event from themselves to the gamers. so they have an out when their sponsors come back and go "where is our exposure".

We are both on the same side Dox, as we both want esports in AU to grow, However you are underestimating the impact of the exposure that sponsors want and expect from an event, Previous events didn't have the online coverage and live viewers etc, these all count as impressions for the sponsors. they completely overshadow any event that we use to have simply because it wasn't available back then. While there is merit to what you are saying about only giving constructive feedback, its clear that new things need to be done to make it viable in AU.

All the previous attempts at an e-sport scene in AU have failed. as you said at the LAN the largest was what 5k? and that wasn't considered feasible. For 25k they expect much much more, which is perfectly doable as long as its done correctly. And its not unreasonable to expect a certain level from those putting on the event. This is why you get the group of people who write them off instantly because they haven't done anything different. if they really wanted to be different why wasn't it all done before the event? thats the question you have to ask.

The biggest divide that alot of sc2 players don't understand, is the business side of it all, myself del and frequency have had the opportunity to learn from someone who is a director of a billion dollar company so we have a lot more insight into these things which is why when we look at events we see them in a completely different light compared to others. and see pitfalls that others dont.