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Unread Mon, 8th-Nov-2010, 12:52 AM BnetId: RailGuN.803  Race: Location: Singapore  Total Posts Made: 89 # 1
DFM
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Replay: Protoss vs Zerg trouble *updated* 7/11/2010
Link: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=65

So first I went through the replay at 8x speed and only watched the mini map and basically you lost cause you literally didn't do anything until the zerg was building 5 ultralisks. You let him macro and get his 3rd base up unhindered, which is obviously a big no no.

In general, if Protoss lets Zerg get their 3rd base up without much pressure or economic damage Protoss loses 90% of the time. Think of the PvZ match-up as Protoss preventing Zerg from getting a 3rd expansion up.

Lets look at your plan for that game.
You went for a super fast templar archives and built a robo almost at the same time and proceeded to expand around the time storm tech was half way done. Your unit composition was mostly gateway units supported by a few immortals.
If we look at what zerg was doing during all this, we see he went for a 14 hatch and droned up a ton. He took his 3rd base around the time you started researching storm. And your army was tiny, even if you pushed out, zerg could have probably spawned lings in time and would have gotten the expo up regardless.
This super fast templar archives off of 1 base opening is just way too passive. Even if you wanted to, you wouldn't be able to do anything as your stalker and sentry count would be way to low to fight roaches effectively, and I suspect that even if you pushed out with pure zealots and zerg only had lings, he would still be able to build enough lings to to defend.
Rushing for storm just cuts into your unit production too heavily and just takes way too long to finish. Storm itself takes 110 seconds to finish and the templar archives around 50 seconds, that's almost 3 minutes. It also takes a TON of gas to be viable on 1 base.
Archives is 200 gas, plus 200 gas for storm itself, then maybe 300 for a pair of templar. That's 700 gas, could have been 7 sentries or 14 stalkers or a combination of both.

I could go on about how you could have microed the last battle a bit better, but even if you had survived the first wave of lings and infestors without losing anything, you would have lost to the next wave of 60 lings and 5 ultras regardless.
IMO this game was lost because your plan was flawed and you let zerg outmacro you without any pressure.
I'm not saying you should 4-gate every game and not experiment at all, but you should try something more standard first until you get comfortable with it. Knowing one strategy in depth with all it's strengths and weaknesses and being able to execute it perfectly, is much MUCH better then knowing a wide variety of strategies but not being able to do them well.

I think other than that you need to scout a bit better. With your observer you saw double evo chamber, hive, infestors and then an ultralisk cavern and 2 bases. That should have told you immediately to scout for additional expansion, as that's all late game tech/units and is hard to support off of only 2 bases.

I'm guessing all that sounds kinda harsh and disheartening, but keep at it. I haven't watched your other replays, but have you posted a replay of something more standard, like 3-gate robo, or 2 base collossus timing push? Why not just pick a build that's quite common, post a game of you using it (preferably a game where you lose, not much point in analyzing a game you won) and some of us will tell you what you could have done better and you just keep working on it until you're comfortable with it, then move on to the next strategy.
Also next time it would be good to post your own thoughts on the replay as well.
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Unread Mon, 8th-Nov-2010, 1:38 PM Who's Who:   BnetId: Apth.767  Race: Location: Auckland, New Zealand  Total Posts Made: 414 # 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFM View Post
Replay: Protoss vs Zerg trouble *updated* 7/11/2010
Link: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=65

IMO this game was lost because your plan was flawed and you let zerg outmacro you without any pressure.
I think DFM has hit the nail on the head here.
If you're going to rush for tech, I'd recommend harassing your opponent while you do it - Void Rays, Phoenixes, Immortal Drops, whatever. Anything to stop him making Eighty Three Drones (holy crap).

If you're not putting pressure on your opponent, he'll do one of two things - put pressure on you, or expand like a demon. Neither of these things is good. You want your opponent cowering in a corner, afraid to spend money on harvesters in case he doesn't have enough units to defend your next push.

Mind games man, mind games.
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Unread Wed, 17th-Nov-2010, 1:45 PM BnetId: Ein.326  Race: Location: Singapore  Total Posts Made: 31 # 3
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Liked some inputs on my current game play and any things i can improve on. I'm a silver league noob btw.

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=82

Its v

My opponent is in gold league so i was feeling quite pressured as always.
A summary of it was i went for a 1gate 1forge FE as my initial thought was hoping he would rush me with a double gate or 4 gate proxy. But when i scouted first round it was all clear i think i won this game out of luck that he did a 4 robo? i had a rough idea what he was going to build when i saw a mass of cannons at his natural. thats when i started warping in more gateways and pumping immortals out. Didnt expect the voidray cheese and i lost a few stalkers but thankfully it didnt do much damage to my economy.
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Unread Wed, 17th-Nov-2010, 2:38 PM Who's Who:   BnetId: Apth.767  Race: Location: Auckland, New Zealand  Total Posts Made: 414 # 4
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Originally Posted by Melchsee View Post
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=82
You won that game pretty convincingly. There wasn't any point in the game I could see where you were on the back foot, or pinned in your base. Your opponent spent too much money on unit producing structures and you punished him for it.

IMO, it's always better to post replays of you losing if you want constructive feedback - the theory being that if you eliminate all the problems making you lose, you won't lose anymore.

If you can, find a replay of you losing. It's hard to criticise your actions if your actions ultimately win you the game.
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Last edited by Apth; Wed, 17th-Nov-2010 at 4:03 PM. Reason: Replay approved
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