[Meatex]

Also posted this on BNet forums ^^;
I am a platinum zerg and am offering free coaching to any low league zergies who want to improve but find themselves stuck. (sorry can't really help terran's or protoss)
I know i'm no masters top pro or whatever but I can at least get you to gold or plat
Why am I doing this you may ask? Well I enjoy teaching

Also i will be streaming any coaching live so you can also watch it later to review ^^
If you want to give back if you find my coaching useful please follow me at www.justin.tv/meatex

For now i'm thinking 90 minutes per lesson - to make things easier on me if you have a practice partner (preferably someone you cannot beat 95% of the time though I might not be able to help you beat a top diamond or masters ^^ bring them along. Also you may want to prepare some replays that we can go over a little as well.
I can coach specific matchups and/or general stuff like creep spread, macro etc.
You will need skype or mumble (like vent or teamspeak)

I am free during the day on Tuesdays and Thursdays and late nights other days - weekends are possible but I can't guarantee ^^;
I'll take 2 students per day on tuesday and thursday - for now. Times are likely to be 1pm-2:30pm KST and 3pm-4:30pm KST
KST is Seoul, Korea time which is currently 2 hours behind sydney time and 1 hour ahead of singapore time.

[HDPhoenix]

Cheers to more people willing to do this ^^ Props to you Meatex

[ToRDjvillian]

If I'm online then I'm happy to be the person to practice against

[Harmonik]

Wow awesome. Ill take you up on that Meatex.
How about the second slot on Tue? 3-4:30 KST = 5-6:30 AEST

[deL]

Why would you get coaching from a platinum? Fine way to pick up bad habits imo.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

alot of BSG players could learn a ton from this, and its a good free experience

[FadeAfflatus]

Originally Posted by deL

Why would you get coaching from a platinum? Fine way to pick up bad habits imo.

Apparently someone picked up bad habits, Why would you complain about someone being nice while remaining inactive yerself?

Proann: His free to coach whoever that is willing, i'm quite sure if you got nothing constructive like del just ..well..hush?

MEAT need help with timings let me know lol I got mumble working now. Lol you can have a tourny for bsg players too if this goes well -_-

PS: if masters players dont wanna coach for free then stop whining and hijacking this thread, Its for potential sign-ups not complains. Do it on another thread, aint nothing wrong with someone being nice and helping others the last time I checked.

PS2: MEATEX HAS BIG BICEPS, DONT PISS HIM OFF LOL

[NDG.Stitch]

Hey Meatex,

Might practice with you next week on tues and thurs, i'm diamond terran, but i'm around high gold zerg (on NA) so it'll be nice to get some tips and advices.

[toasti0]

not everyones masters del could help alot of low level zergs plenty of noobs out there that don't know how to play zerg because there mechanics are different to the 2 easy win races.

[Torniquet]

What his saying is that his gold for a reason. Whether it be his build orders arent refined properly doesnt know the right timings or cant multitask effectively or for some other reason i dont know. Basically would be teaching them how to play Gold Zerg not how to play Zerg and can see it being more of a hinderance than a help. Because lower levels will learn wrong builds or really random timings things like that.

Granted yes could probably take someone brand new to the game and teach them basics but anything in depth youd want to learn from one of the best rather than a mid level player.

Now im not like attacking Meatex or anything because yeah i think this could be good for lower level players. Just dont want people to be all well why arent i Masters if youve been coaching me. Lower level players sure, same level or higher well yeah would more than likely be learning a few things that arent 100% correct.

I do like the idea of teaching basics though general concepts and making Vods of them for the lower players so yeah go ahead.

[Kringe]

@del if u have a bronze playerbeing taught by a masters he is going to be worse then a bronze being taught by a plat y because when in masters its all about perfection but at a bronze to gold area its about learning how to play and a lower player will know this and teach acordingly while a masters will go do this this and this and u will win a bronze needs more help then just that

[deL]

Originally Posted by Kringe

@del if u have a bronze playerbeing taught by a masters he is going to be worse then a bronze being taught by a plat y because when in masters its all about perfection but at a bronze to gold area its about learning how to play and a lower player will know this and teach acordingly while a masters will go do this this and this and u will win a bronze needs more help then just that

Nope.

Do you think people just turned up and were masters? No, they've all been through the gold/plat stages or maybe they just played another RTS like WC3 or BW before and went through it then. Masters players can cover all the gold/plat level stuff as well as the higher level stuff.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Kringe

@del if u have a bronze playerbeing taught by a masters he is going to be worse then a bronze being taught by a plat y because when in masters its all about perfection but at a bronze to gold area its about learning how to play and a lower player will know this and teach acordingly while a masters will go do this this and this and u will win a bronze needs more help then just that

Wrong.

The Master player will teach you what you need to know to get better immidiately as well as lay some foundations to allow the player to build towards Masters in the future, the plat player is stuck at play for a reason, and the reason is either their mechanics are poor or they don't understand the game. The plat player can proberbly get you to Plat faster with allins etc, but you will get stuck there with him, and you'll have to relearn how to play.

[TAhackdZ]

Originally Posted by Kringe

@del if u have a bronze playerbeing taught by a masters he is going to be worse then a bronze being taught by a plat y because when in masters its all about perfection but at a bronze to gold area its about learning how to play and a lower player will know this and teach acordingly while a masters will go do this this and this and u will win a bronze needs more help then just that

I disagree.

I get taught by a Master's player, and he's helped me get from Bronze to Plat. Covers all the basics, macro mechanics, etc.

I think it's got less to do with the league the coach is a part of, and more t odo with what they know about the game. Obviously though a Masters level player is simply going to have more experience and know more about the game.

I don't mean any disrespect to Meat though, mad props for being willing to teach people anything for free.

GL.

[NDG.Stitch]

Well guys, I mean Meatex is not charging anything to coach players.
But Benji / deL have a point, ofc having a masters coach is a lot more helpful in the long run than having a platinum coach. But meh - it'd be a nice practice/advice session so I mean I'm down for it.

[deL]

I am just worried that plat players are going to teach something wrong or make players pick up bad habits that will hinder them from getting better in the future.

[Meatex]

Thanks for the interest guys as well as the criticisms
Though I of course disagree that a platnium will always teach bad habits - for the record its my multi tasking thats weakest
I never all in unless team mate asks me to practice against an all in too ^^
@Benji and del
I did state quite clearly that I am bronze and intend to help low league players and I was also upfront that I am not masters (not that being master = good either) and that I may only be able to get a player to gold probably plat
Though I have over 1000 games experience and won't be teaching bad habbits

But given that its free and if a player feels i'm a bad coach because I teach bad habbits then i'm not forcing them to continue being coached by me. Also if i do say something completely wrong you could always watch my stream and correct me ^^
anyway don't be so sure to dismiss me until you see me coach *^.^*

Or you know you could offer free masters level coaching, then I could get coaching from you as well as the guys who would get coaching from me

[Satu]

Hm, we let people as low as bronze league do casting and analysing games and how players can improve, but we cannot allow them to do the same thing while actually talking directly to the players. How strange.

On a side note, I also have been coaching zerg players in lower leagues than myself. Im diamond on SEA and NA for 1v1 now, was only recently platinum and got to ~ 3200 at the end of season 1 on SEA. Add me, Zergtastic.610 on SEA or Zergtastic.353 on NA.

Im not trying to hijack the thread either, lul.

[Meatex]

Lol its cool
More people step up to do something similar the better
Was hoping higher league players would jump on board

[rezyn8]

Everyone has to start somewhere

[TAminimat]

I am also looking to teach some gold/platinum/diamond players and will be doing payed lessons with masters and grandmasters.

[Meatex]

minmat this thread isn't for pimping your paid coaching
free or make another thread plz ^^

But funny I make a post for free coaching and have elitist guys infer basically i'm a noob and then out come masters asking for money for same thing :P But hey if you got the money throw it around - he or tgun probably would have more insight than myself ^^
But I was offering to help SEA community when no one else was really offering anything similar
I remember when SEA community was a lot more open and friendly and less you are not masters gtfo

[Melchsee]

its how elitism comes about. masters think they're good to coach so they put down someone lower ranking than them.

thats why i left this community alone after it became bigger.

[SkyBreaker]

Originally Posted by Melchsee

its how elitism comes about. masters think they're good to coach so they put down someone lower ranking than them.

thats why i left this community alone after it became bigger.

To be completely honest, none of the previous posts contained any elitism. The general gist of it was a concern that bad-habits and wrong-methods would be taught from someone below high diamond/master's league acting as a coach; which I can completely agree with.

However that is just my opinion, but since I first begun playing SCII I always have valued the advice of the higher league players simply put because they're in a higher league. Does that mean I don't listen to below-Master's players? Not at all, I take everything into account however I just know the advice given from the higher-tier players is tried, tested and true advice based on the tip-top end of SCII game-play as opposed to certain scenarios that can occur in the plat-gold level of game-play which seem "normal" to the player(s) in that league.

That's not to say I don't have faith in Meatex's coaching abilities, I wish him all the luck in the world with his coaching endeavors, however I just wanted to re-iterate the points made from some of the previous posters and point out how in-fact they are actually quite far from anything possibly classed as elitist.

[Zanderax]

Count me in. Im free most Tuesdays and Thrusdays and with the Holis coming up it'l be late night galore.
Zanderax.255
Bronze

[ProAnnn]

Whatever skybreaker said is true. Platinium players are at platinium level because of some bad habits or some unrefined builds that are weak to certain timings. As a zerg, these are pretty important things (unlike protoss where u can 4 gate to master which i would recommend a plat player can teach no problem). Whatever benji/del have said are totally true and not elitism. If you want to coach lower-level players, ensure you yourself is improving first! If you are a previous 'silver' league player and recently promoted to gold for example, ask yourself what have you changed in your playstyle to ensure this promotion and share with the lower leagues players. It doesnt means a plat player cant coach. It just means that a player that cant improve himself cannot improve others in my opinion.

[Meatex]

That would be true ProAnnn if we all had all the time in the world to devote to practice
A player could be in platnium because he never played an RTS before
A player could have been beating gold players for some time before promotion
A player might be being held back by his multitasking abilities because he is used to playing RPG games or is just maybe slow ^^
I myself can't think of any bad habbits that would be keeping me in platinum that I would be passing on as despite what those of you who think so high of yourself say - I'm not a retard at sc2 because I am in platinum currently. I know my weaknesses and am of course trying to get better. I spend as much time training with masters team mates as I do laddering if not more.

I like how the "pro" players here are putting me down for the exact things that I prefaced my post with. I am not looking to coach gold players handing down the definitave word on everything zerg but I am trying to help low league zergs (again I did say that in my OP)
I am well aware that I am not the best player and I'm not going to be teaching builds so much because they aren't the most important thing in bronze/silver. I am well aware that masters players may have more insight - though not if they got there just by 4 gating - but doesn't mean i don't know what I am talking about.
I am trying to share the small revelations that got me out of my leagues but likewise i'm not telling anybody rarrrr 7RR will always win or is always bad or whatever.
And yes there isn't obvious elitism going on but its still masters level players telling me not to coach (or rather lowbie zergs not to get coaching from me) despite no one else stepping up to offer help to new players struggling. You can get coaching from masters but not everyone has the disposable income for that and I certainly see no masters players offering to help anyone for the good of the community (with youngmin gone that is)
Now you can watch VOD's once (or perhaps if with all the flak i'm getting) and either eat your words or correct me. Or you can step up yourself and offer something to the community beyond oh he's only going to teach you bad habbits, you should pay my friend for coaching.

I made this post to give something to the community - I like the SEA community though I got much better response on the BNet forums strangely enough - and to say, lead by example and encourage more people to train those below them.
Time will tell whether or not me coaching will be worthwhile and I do hope to record some sessions next week, so please wait until you see what I have to offer before dismissing me ^^

[TAVoices]

I used to coach on BW for free for a while back when i had time.
But for people without much time coaching for free is not an option at all.

[[TA]LoSt]

April Fools?

[Dalvernex]

lets see if there's players who wants him to coach. If no then too bad. But there is. So it's his own problem. And those who wanna come in this thread and criticize. Do you all need coaching too? If not stop and let lower level people ask him to coach. Or maybe you yourself can coach????

[Harmonik]

I once had the opportunity to learn Wushu under a man who was on the original Beijing Wushu team. I was only there for a year and in that time rarely did we come into contact, and most of that was him putting his knee into my back to force me to stretch further. Instead the class learned from the top down. The sifu only had time to teach the 10 or so best students in the class. Who in turn taught advanced weapons to those less experienced than them. They in turn taught broadsword to the >2yr students who in turn took the time here and there to correct the moves of us noobs who were doing five stance, long fist routines and basic kicks.
The way that community worked and developed its members was amazing, needless to say everyone progressed fast and friendships made.

I tell you this story for two reasons.
1. Because you can always learn something from someone who is better than you but they cant teach you past their level. Masters don't have time to teach noobs and they have long since overcome the problems that noobs face yet intermediate people will remember.
2. Because when deL and Benji make very short dismissive comments to someone who is trying to help it does most definitely come off as being elitist. I dont think they are, but if they could make point better then you wouldn't have this huge thread of pros telling noobs they cant train themselves.

For example two things that have immensely helped me in the last weeks has been watching Benji's bootcamp week and some ZvZ training from a plat player in my clan. Those two things I feel will push me into Silver in the next two weeks and then when i plateau ill go looking for my next hit.

TL;DR I love SEA

[deL]

Wushu isn't starcraft dude. This isn't a planned community with a pyramid of education cascading down in a wonderful magical fountain of sharing and caring.

It's one guy who presumably isn't recieving training of his own and has done nothing to convince us he knows how to coach or what he is talking about. Would it be so hard for him to provide replays of himself so that either we can critique it or to see whether he got where he is by cheese or legit strats? Your wushu example was planned from what you said and it worked because there were set moves that could be passed down directly as the students above learned them - basically the master was teaching it to them but in 3rd person.

[Marc]

I'll help u out with terran/protoss players.

[Meatex]

Well its not how good you are at the game its whether you are a good teacher and in a distant second how much you know.
You really think any coach would be coaching if they could be playing. You think Federer's coach could beat him even now when he's not at his best?
I coached baduk (google it) for 3 years and paid for my uni textbooks when I was 2nd by winning tournaments.
Now i'm a school teacher, not a glamorous life of only playing starcraft for sure but I know how to teach I think. and ffs mate I already said i'm not the best player but i'm offering to help those below me as my master's level team mates help me every day
The ONLY reason that SC2 doesn't have a "pyramid of education cascading down in a wonderful magical fountain of sharing and caring" is because people like you try to do everything they can to shut down anyone who tries to help who isn't in your click.
This isn't highschool bro, grow up and either offer free coaching or gtfo mate

[deL]

The point isn't your teaching method, I am sure there are a lot of low league players who have charisma and whatnot required for engaging coaching. The point is if you can't recognise that what you are teaching them might be wrong they are going to pick up bad habits. You might have been teaching English for 20 years but never passed maths at school, and you went to teach someone mathematics then you are going to teach them something wrong most likely - someone who has even passed grade 12 maths is going to be a better tutor for that subject even if they only have the most basic teaching skills just because they have basic knowledge that you can't have.

[Meatex]

Dude, uhhh did anyone who did year 12 not do math?
And why can't someone who is not a math professor teach a beginner addition, subtraction etc?
Stop assuming i'm an idiot you damn troll - you don't know me and you sure as hell don't know how much I know. If you want to shoot this down and and be a smarmy prick good on you mate.
Go re read the OP and use your head for something other than putting people down for once
I was very upfront that I'm not masters and woopdefucking do you're one league ahead - I could say that because you haven't been in the GSL or MLG that you shouldn't coach because clearly you are not one of the best in the world and that must be because you have bad habbits that you are going to teach.

Please elaborate what bad habits am i going to teach them for example huh?
And no teaching skills is more important as I have seen guys with vastly more knowledge than me trying to teach and failing

[cruxis]

Thundertoss is a Diamond player, and he coached Destiny, a Master player.

It's not how well you play the game, it's how well you understand the game.

[nard]

Masters players are no doubt better than plats. but plats do have certain mechanics that bronze/silver might not have. Granted, plat players are not perfect, surely they have something to offer to us bronzies!

that being said, what meatex is doing is commendable! can i learns some zerg!?

[Marc]

Hey Meatex, I don't mind helping you out.

[holyforker]

hello thought i'd share something..

was looking for a game in chat tonight and someone asked if i wanted to play his friend as he was coaching his friend. so i agreed, and since his friend was in bronze i won relatively easily.

Then he asked me to play against him so that his friend can watch and learn, so i agreed even though I didn't think i would win (he's in diamond)
i asked if there was any build in particular I was supposed to do, and he said no.

So first game I tried out a build that GGNore taught me in his coaching with me, a pseudo 3 gate expo build which is really a 3 gate DT rush. He (my opponent, let's call him Mr X) didn't scout at all so when my DTs hit his base he lost and..
HE SCOLDED ME.
Saying 'why did you do that? why didn't you play standard 3 gate expo?!!' and blames me for going a wonky build when he did about 0 scouting (no Overlords, etc)

So we play again, and he stole my gas rather early (before my 1st gas even came up) so i decided to try another build that i had just learnt, some 2 gate stalker pressure into a 3gate expand. even though i totally messed up the timing (2nd gateway was up like 30 seconds before cyber core? lolol).. and I killed him with stalker zealots because he was droning up

and again he scolds me 'WHY NO STANDARD 3GATE EXPO WHY WHY'
(which i was kinda doing except with some pressure, but he stole my gas so i couldn't make alot of sentries so i decided to try other stuff)


What I wanted to say was, it seems even at diamond, some players may not be good coaches. He was drilling his friend to just counter one build (3 gate expo) without teaching him how to react to other builds. He didn't teach him to scout (zerg is a reactionary race right? that's what i read everywhere) and seemed quite narrowminded in his coaching.

I didn't include his name because my purpose is obviously not to bash anyone, but to just support those who have been saying 'coaching is not for everyone'. Need to iron out your own bad habits first! (e.g. be good like GGNore (who coached me haha im biased) !

Ok sorry if this isn't supposed to belong here i searched abit and couldn't find the original thread with deL or someone scolding someone else so i put it here.

TL: DR
Coaching is not for everyone. Don't coach if you have bad habits yourself that you haven't ironed out!

[NvJazBas]

Meatex, you Korean? since you said you coached baduk. I'm just curious.

[Meatex]

Not korean but I live here
Also I know my bad habits, I tend to neglect scouting in the mid game when I am actually playing a game. I also know that i'm not good at putting on pressure while macroing - basically my multi tasking is not up to scratch. I know this and many other holes in my play so if I ever was to show a bronzie how its done I'd be able to highlight those as points and show that even with those flaws in my play I did better because I got supply blocked less, or responded properly to early scouting info etc.
Anyway the trolls here killed any chance I had to help those under me so I will be sticking mostly to FaDe training

[cure]

Closing this thread since Meatex expressed that he's gonna be sticking to training his clan members.