[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Nemo

• Marines are human beings don't roadkill them with your tanks

• It's cold out there, your opponent smartly use that public heater to warm his units.

ahh...good old Nemo spotting all these little things XD

[sRFullstop]

I need some help with this game:

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=568

It is a ZvZ on Shattered Temple. My opponent opens with 13 gas 13 pool for a quick Speedling build. I do my normal 14g/14p, and I make a lot of lings as well, with a healthy economy on 1 base early game. My opponent gets his expansion up while pressuring me with pure speedlings, and I cannot utilize my natural hatch because I can't make drones due to his constant aggression. In the end my Banelings lose to his overwhelming lings.

NOTE: I was expecting banelings because of the extremely early gas pool :/

[HowAreYa]

Thanks Nemo. Everything make sense. Been trying to work on hotkeys and general macro cycle.

I was initially saving energy for tranfuses vs the banshees. But I had muta's coming so creep wouldve been a good option.

The only reason I didnt jump in with my muta's was because I saw a bunch of marines. But thinking about it now they wouldn't have had stim. Then I saw the armory and assumed Thors, turns out he went straight for battlecrusiers. I just always get the feeling that muta's are so fragile so I never wanna engage with them directly. But now I realise I couldve engaged alot earlier.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by HowAreYa

Thanks Nemo. Everything make sense. Been trying to work on hotkeys and general macro cycle.

You're welcome

I was initially saving energy for tranfuses vs the banshees. But I had muta's coming so creep wouldve been a good option.

Ah, OK I understand. Throw down at least 2 of them, that's quite cheap and they have their own live after that.

The only reason I didnt jump in with my muta's was because I saw a bunch of marines. But thinking about it now they wouldn't have had stim. Then I saw the armory and assumed Thors, turns out he went straight for battlecrusiers.

Harassing has that other advantage of huge scouting. Then you don't have to assume but you know. Try to be as active as you can with your units, even just scouting the map, poking etc. It has many advantages:

• Scout
• Take random opportunities you discover when poking or patroling
• Learn to multi-task. You will need that anyway when getting higher level.

I just always get the feeling that muta's are so fragile so I never wanna engage with them directly. But now I realise I couldve engaged alot earlier.

They are, that's why they're so demanding in multi-task. But you must learn to do it because they are the unit you can't be idle with if you want them to be efficient.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Hi guys

This is a game from the KR server (im dia there), a PvZ on shakuras, I'm just looking for some pointers on what I could have done better.
http://drop.sc/54378

Some things i've noticed are my early game FFE was off so my blink timing was fairly delayed, meaning I couldn't snipe the third (although I did get an expo up) and I should have walled off my 4th a lot early to prevent those ling snipes.

Anything else you guys can say that I could improve on?

Thanks.

[iM yang]

I don't see what was wrong with your FFE except for the fact you stayed on 1 gas for ages and didn't get your 4th gas for a long time also.

Generally you want to go up to 4 gateways, add your gas, then add your twilight, then add 3 more gates and push out ~9 minutes.
You want to put down a robo once you push out also as burrow is very common at this timing.

You had some good trades at 12:30 but then instead of saving all your stalkers you walked into his third for no reason and gave some away for free. You always want to be building your stalker force up and not losing it.

Once you pulled back you should've realised a couple of things;
1. You don't know if he wants to play aggressively or tech
2. You have no sentries, therefore no force fields
3. he is playing a roach heavy style, which lings are very popular with

You needed to replenish your sentry count and if you had done, you would've held your third with no problem. You also needed some sort of scouting in his base (robo earlier works for this with obs)

A tip for every PvZ game you will ever play, you need to have sim city protecting EVERY expansion (4th base ramp, nat ramp, spot between xel'naga tower + cliff). If you don't, a good zerg will pull you every which way without you being able to defend it.

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Gameplay analysis and some beating across the head too

Rewatched the replay and yea, the supply blocks hurt me, I agree that it was an All-in(ish) build and the only reason I won was my opponent, quoting GingerOcelot "(I) didn't know what you were going." and I got brutally lucky.

I went with 2 Gas Reaper followed by Factory hoping to quickly transition into BF Hellions. The Factory was meant to lift off and place itself on the Rax TL till I realised, "Well, crap. Just started stim.". So, put another TL down with the Factory.

I built Marines for one reason only, Mutas. The plan was to go Mech with Marines fending off the Mutas. I just manually selected the 2 Rax I had in the early game till I hotkeyed it to 4. Yeah, I know if he hit me with Mutas in say, my expansion or ramp I would be dead cause all the Marines are in the main with a long journey.

The 7 buildings was an bad overreaction to seeing all that resources. Once the 2 other Factory and Armory went up I went "Crap! Should've used money to expand" and I had to delay my expansion even longer. I somehow find it easier for me to expand behind a Bio centered harassment than one around BF Hellions/Banshees. Something I guess we will have to look into.

Indeed this is not my best gameplay. I guess its cause I've been playing so many vs that I have forgotten proper builds for and .

You know you're in trouble when Nemo calls you out for coaching

[iM yang]

Oops double post, stupid page wouldn't load.

[ToRPandarine]

you know yang means business whn he double post btw, yang cld u take a look at the game between Delraich and I? think ye wld appreciate some pointers

[neon]

Hi Guys,



After many a crushing defeat over the past week I'm biting the bullet to see if I can get some constructive feedback on improving my game. firstly I want to improve my PvZ I see players on streams just crush protoss with denying expansions and taking out armies but I always seem to either a) die early or b) die really late.

This is just one game where I die early but I thought I was doing the right things, though I guess I don't really have a build past a hatch at around 21 and early speed lings and I try react to what I scout, which may be not enough in this game. (he hits around 9-11 mins with +1 at my third on shakuras)

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=569

any help/advice would be appreciated, I don't need anything super detailed but by all means feel free

Stats from SC2 Gears, since the 1st NOV I've played about 60 ladder games, 50% ZvP win, 60% ZvZ win, and 26% ZvT win.

The only matchup I feel confident in at the moment is ZvZ and I feel I have no idea vs Protoss or Terran, I try copy pro's but it never seems to look the same and I lack game vision for what I need to be doing a lot of the time.

[MooZfY]

Hey guys, I have trouble with TvZ as it is my worst matchup. Please try to tell me what I could have done better or feedback on my play.

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=571

thanks guys!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by zoomforyou

Hey guys, I have trouble with TvZ as it is my worst matchup. Please try to tell me what I could have done better or feedback on my play.

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=571

thanks guys!

When I analyze a replay, I don't mean to tell with certitude what should be done in each situation, I mean to give guidelines for the own reflection of the player. Those guidelines are more directives for lower leagues and more external opinions for higher leaguers.

In your case, obviously you will have knowledge on this game I don't have, so i really try to give you a fresh external opinion that could give you ideas that you could add to your own analysis of what you should do.


zoomforyou vs xGKingMafia

League :
Map : Shattered Temple
Length : 13:41
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• Too good mannered. Just say: I will trample you XKingthingy scum !

• Opening Rax-gaz for you vs Hatch first for Mafia

• 4:07 : Bunker rush with one marine, one SCV. Mafia have scouted it was one rax only and a late one so you don't force lings. You have lost your scouting scv and 25 minerals in exchange to mining time and an opportunity if you had succeeded. It seems an even operation to me as you could have backed this SCV for mining back at home or scouting a bit more.

• 6:07 : 2 Hellions in front of his base. 2 queens and a spore crawler finishing 4 lings defending his ramp. For the moment the game is absolutely even and both of you have done what is written in the books perfectly.

• 6:09 : You deny a creep tumor, that's hellion job and they do it perfectly. You take a small advantage.

• 7:44 : Situation still even, you denied any expansion, any creep, your hellions are in good health. Mafia take his gas and 11 drone to use them+Macro Hatch and is preparing to tech.

• 7:56 : Mafia has preferred to extend his creep at the outside of his base instead of between his bases. probably because he was fearing some hellion drop and wanted to defend them efficiently.

• 7:57 : You're only on 2 gaz and you're going heavy bio (4 barracks) on one fact for tanks but no engeeniring bay. Shouldn't you make either a starport for better scouting or engineering bay to begin upgrades and be safer in case or quick mutas ?

• 7:57 : First macro mistake, your first base is oversaturated (29 SCV) while the other is not (2 SCVs). Transfer some from base one to base 2 when expanding

• 8:19 : I guess you already know you can't have such a long supply block at 54 food against Mafia.

• 8:26: While you control Mafia, take that time to break the Rocks to the third and at the gold if you can; if not you won't be able to expand after because your army will be very busy.

• 8:57 : Mafia decide to get out of his base and attack your hellions.

• 9:02 : You were very attentive and you save them.

• 9:57 : perfect timing for the tank push as shown in army supply. But because you supply block again, you're not producing as you should.

• 9:57 : Thanks to your hellions, Mafia see nothing of this push.

• 10:25 : You're also far to late on the shield upgrade.

• 10:25 : Your game begins to crumble.
  • Again nearly supply blocked
  • At last engineering bay but no upgrade and a SCV idle

• • Both tank clamped and all your light units

• • Not rallying your new marines and you have only 2 tanks at that moment

• • Again not producing the 5 marines you should (only 2)

• 10:47, your units are right above the probable position of the creep. As soon as you scan, both your tanks make a awful friendly fire ...

• Huge, huge blunder : Now you have to retreat to break the rocks to be able to expand. I don't think you should give away such a menacing position. You should have leapfrogged with your units until Mafia base.

• 11:30 : You loose as you're taken off siege by Mafia during your retreat and by behind (of course hellions that scout the path for the main army are the other side now).

• 11:46 : That's far too late now for Simcitying your Natural. You should do it before.

• 12:20 : You repel it, but so far behind that your are doomed. He has now all the map you have no tanks and no defense.

Strong points

• Perfect macro until 8 minutes.
• Good timing for the 3 tank push (but only with 2 because of the supply block)
• Perfect Hellion management

What could be improved

• Don't supply block, never, ever in . If you struggle with that, make one depot more ahead of what you're doing now. that will be better than supply blocking you that hard at 56 food (and 94).
• Simcity your natural with bunkers, Barracks (and not too much depots).
• Be active with your units, destroy the rocks before your Hellions are chased away of his Natural;
• Never retreat with your tank push, reinforce it and trade. Ground is absolutely key in TvZ. If you're in front of his bases he is in difficulties to expand and control the map.
• Don't clamp your units before battle. They must never be clamped. Once sieged, leapfrog with small group of units and tanks. Then trades will be in your favor. Marines will also better protect your tanks from mutas.
• Upgrade faster (shield, EB upgrades).
• Put reactor on every barrack. You will use them for your starport after that.
• Scout and chase Ovies with a Viking.

Conclusion

You lost :

• 1rst Because you retreated your army
• 2nd because of supply block making you have less army than you should, leading you to retreat because you felt weak with too few army.
• 3rd Not destroying rocks and bad Simcity of the natural

I think you have good potential to improve. You need more training to make all those things perfectly and you will soon be able to take him down.

[MooZfY]

Thanks Nemo, I will try to remember everything you told me I could improve on =)

[aLtMrFool]

I would love to have a feedback of my TvT, I choked up alot this game because I was up against the terran beast YoonYJ, so pardon my mistakes :P

Didn't expect to meet players like yoon less than a month after coming back from a hiatus so... was kinda shocked :\

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15176

there's the replay! Thank you very much, anyone who would help me with this replay.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Lordadon

I would love to have a feedback of my TvT, I choked up alot this game because I was up against the terran beast YoonYJ, so pardon my mistakes :P

Didn't expect to meet players like yoon less than a month after coming back from a hiatus so... was kinda shocked :\

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/15176

there's the replay! Thank you very much, anyone who would help me with this replay.

Same than for ZooM, I highlight some points to give you ideas to improve. He told me he was found the advice useful, I hope I will do as well again.


MrFool vs YoonYJ

League : and
Map : Xel'Naga Caverns
Length : 19:46
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• Friendly chat to begin with. Yoon already trying psychological wargames

• 3:04 : You make the OC at 16 he does at 15, but you're soon nearly 1 SCV behind because you lost your scouting SCV. Note that he didn't scout SCV you. For me that's a signature for a probable reaper scout.

• 4:35 : You go for reactor hellions and scout with 2 marines

• 4:44 : You luckily ambush his reaper and take a early advantage.

• 5:40 : Timing push vs Yoon who has made a Rax-expand. He is blind since his reaper is at 2hp, you're in a huge advantage.

• 6:20 : His reaper attacks you base while you arrive at his. First mistake, you should have attacked immediately while defending. He was microing his reaper and not attentive to his base. So you would certainly both has entered his base with your 4 hellions (and won instantly) AND killed his reaper since he would have had to defend his base.

• 7:02 : You destroy the depot at his wall, you have 4 hellions 2 marines and a medivac coming (and more units at home) vs 4 marines, Yoon has begun a third CC. From that point you should have won. You have to multi-task your army and your base since you're now supply-block, though that's hard to do. I don't get why you're attacking this techlab and giving time to Yoon. You have units to rally at your base. Attack his SCV !

• 7:19 : You're now attacking the second depot to prevent him making units I guess. I think you're giving him far too much time to prepare his defense.

• 7:27 : And now the factory !! Kill those SCV, Hellions are here for that, make them do their job !

• 7:38 : That was THE winning time. Dont kite, let them stay in that small choke while you burn them.

• 7:38 : You should have expanded in the same time. I know hard to do, but well, you're playing vs , I can ask the impossible.
• 7:41 : Now time to kite as your hellions are very bad positioned.

• 7:47 : Why do you put them in the medivac ? The SCV were badly wounded, you could have still killed half of them. You don't need those 3 hellions at home since you rallied nothing to his base.

• You didn't produced SCV from 7:30 to 8:14. Killing SCV is useless if you don't produce them on the other hand. Even oversaturating is not a problem since you will transfert them after. Why construct your CC that away of your nat ?

• 9:07 : Second push.

• 9:41 : He repels you and with his 3 CC he has caught you on SCV count

• 11:12 : He expand in the same time as you do. SCV count and army are even. He chase you out of his base. Don't flee hellions, fight and trade, they will kill all your stuff no matter what.

• 12:10 : Look what Yoon is doing with his hellions when the rest of his army fight : Head for SCVs instantly. trade army for SCV and mules.

• 12:35 : look at the income tab now. You really far behind, even with nearly same SCV.

• 13:17 : He goes on harass your SCV taking advantage of the very open Natural. 7 kills for the hellions.

• 14:32 : He has the map and then over-expand while you're stuck in your's like a vs

• 14:52 : What he sees and what you see. Now it's nearly hopeless, the reason for your defeat is way before that point.

• 18:35 : He sees your drop and kills it. That's what map control is for.

• 19:30 : the end.

• Nice tank explosion !

Strong points

• Good aggressivity that allows you to nearly kill that reaper. Those 2 initial 2 marines were your best move. Map control gives you opportunities and you took them from the very start, Korean way.
• Good one base attack that should have punished the too bold quick 3 CC of Yoon.

What could be improved

• Bad management of your first push. Hellions are here to kill SCV (or marines), not buildings !
• Not enough Multi-tasking to take advantage of your push. You NEED to have perfect macro, expanding, building SCV and producing even while you're in the enemy base. I won't ask that from a low-leaguer, but as a wanting to improve, that's your goal.
• Reinforce your army with fresh units during your attack too. Especially hellions that reinforce real quick.

Conclusion

You lost because you miss-managed winning situation you had after breaking the entrance of Yoon base. After that the 3 CC vs your only one, then 2, allowed him to take the macro advantage.
Finally his awesome Hellion micro allowed him to kill your stuff and pin you in your 2 bases while he took 5 expands. learn from his Hellion micro and his eagerness to take the map.

[aLtMrFool]

Thank you Nemo for the long analysis!

It was xel'naga caverns so I didn't choose to do any form of FE.. Even watching KR streams like TSL_Polt they don't FE in TvT on small maps like xel' naga caverns as they usually die to one base pushes unlike tal'darim altar / shakuras.

But yupp! I was lucky to catch the reaper, I was guessing because I didn't see any scv scout + I saw a single marine pushing out to kill my SCV, was trying to either catch expansion / lone marine / lone scv or in this case, lucky to catch a reaper.

I planned to do a one base push before expanding because of the map and yes you are right, I wasn't targetting the right things :\ I should totally work on that!

And actually, I didnt go right in for the win because I didn't know it was a winning moment I have this problems against people with big names like YYJ because I felt behind in game. I could only tell I was ahead from the replays! I was actually AFRAID to go in for the kill.. I guess that's another thing I can improve on

And yea... that multi-tasking is bad! I will improve on multi-tasking! Thanks for the advice and...

Thanks for the compliment of putting me as a GM on the closing portion but I'm not GM YET :P

Anyway, all in all, thanks alot

MrFool.439
Signing off!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Lordadon

Thank you Nemo for the long analysis!

You're welcome.

It was xel'naga caverns so I didn't choose to do any form of FE.. Even watching KR streams like TSL_Polt they don't FE in TvT on small maps like xel' naga caverns as they usually die to one base pushes unlike tal'darim altar / shakuras.

One base push is often a good strat in TvT. Expandind with the risk of Hellion drops Tank push or Banshees is riscky.

I planned to do a one base push before expanding because of the map and yes you are right, I wasn't targetting the right things :\ I should totally work on that!

And actually, I didnt go right in for the win because I didn't know it was a winning moment I have this problems against people with big names like YYJ because I felt behind in game. I could only tell I was ahead from the replays! I was actually AFRAID to go in for the kill.. I guess that's another thing I can improve on

If he let you destroy the depot at the entrance he is weak. No matter what, when hellions are in the ennemy base, go kill the SCV, you will be able to withdraw them if there is too much opposition.

And yea... that multi-tasking is bad! I will improve on multi-tasking! Thanks for the advice and...

Not bad lol, it's just where you has more room for improvement than other part of your game which are in advance in comparison.

Thanks for the compliment of putting me as a GM on the closing portion but I'm not GM YET :P

You're playing top 50 , that's nearly it.

[ToRPandarine]

Good news! After a long time, my horrid streak of vs has come to an end and here is the replay to prove it! :P

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=573

Though, I feel like its not deserved cause:

• Macro was horrid
• No scout
• No harrass
• 3 base vs 5 base
• He was

I went with this Reaper opening followed by BF Hellions ( BF Hellions). Wasn't expecting the reaction to my one Reaper so I could not get them in Sad panda time.



Anyways, I just tanked up, spread em and kept sending the Hellions in to see what damage I could do (hint: very little).

I'd say I got lucky but I'll leave that up to you to decide

Thanks and GLHF!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

Good news! After a long time, my horrid streak of vs has come to an end and here is the replay to prove it! :P

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=573

Though, I feel like its not deserved cause:

• Macro was horrid
• No scout
• No harass
• 3 base vs 5 base
• He was

I went with this Reaper opening followed by BF Hellions ( BF Hellions). Wasn't expecting the reaction to my one Reaper so I could not get them in Sad panda time.

Anyways, I just tanked up, spread em and kept sending the Hellions in to see what damage I could do (hint: very little).

I'd say I got lucky but I'll leave that up to you to decide

Thanks and GLHF!

ThePandarine, you're a nice kid but a stubborn one. Post defeats only !

If you want me to be proud of your progress, just show me the replay, I will. Don't ask a analyze, that's half left profitable for you than for a defeat and same work for me.

ThePandarine vs GingerOcelot

League : vs
Map : Antiga Shipyard
Length : 33:28
Version 1.4.2

Replay Analysis

• 3:20 : Opening 2ble gaz reaper into fact before 2nd depot, in conclusion supply block at 19
• 5:00 : You make your first marine, resaerching steam, making a lab on the Factory, that's much too tech in my opinion in TvZ. You want to expand really quick in TvZ and make units to pressure and harass when he is weak.

• 5:50 : reaper has 5 kills when he dies, that's good since you're still producing during that time

• 6:15 : 5 buildings now on one base (2 fact, 2 rax, 1 bay), supply block again at 27

• 7:09 : No hotkey for your barracks

• 8:24 : You get 11 free zerglings. You must understand that you should not have gotten them as the player should have left them in his base.

• 9:34 : No production while microing your glings, no expansion

• 10:31 : That's now 7 buildings on 1 base ... You're doing a uninteresting All-in as it won't help you improve. That's not even a good build order for that.

• 15:01 : 65 workers vs 35 on one base. Your hellions keep returning to your base to get repaired.

• 17:20 : You're opponent is transitioning ... Hydras against your Blue Flame Hellion, he could not have made a worse choice as they are fragile light units and they are the only one Hellions are efficient against apart from drones and glings.

• 21:13 : You would have been really sorry in case of mutas

• 22:56 : You're opponent, sad of his live, decide to snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory and decide to suicide his army while he had a bunch of infestors in his base

• End : He gg'd and blame "build loss". That's funny as he had still the game won without a marine on the field and Thors far away of your army and a bunch of mutas available.

Strong points

• Quite good army management as usual

What could be improved

• Awful build order. Play classic. Make the exact same beginning of game as Zoomforyou just before. The exact same thing in vs , every time.
• 4 buildings per mining base including upgrade buildings max.
• EXPAND MORE QUICKLY.
• That game was quite bad comparing to precedent games I saw from you. You need to listen more to what I say, you're not trying enough to apply advice of your games and of other analyzed games here. Tomorrow, online training session compulsory, install Skype.

Quick Comments

Apth:

Compulsory training sessions. I like.

[ToRPandarine]

Pretty angry. I have no idea how did I managed to not pull of the initial push (shouldve have waited for 3rd tank maybe? Not stay so close to the ramp?) Then I lost the game cause I forgot to split my marines..again...ah...so much fail...

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=579

Thanks and GLHF