[BalloonSPR]

LOL stupid;

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	syfChadMann:
	deL:

[x5_Bard]

i think alwaysdry is saying that tot always had suspicions that chobo was a smurf from 1 year back. I highly doubt they knew the information that came to light recently

[FaDeHellfyre]

I'm not saying that they knew, that would be too much to assume. Even bringing up a suspicion though would have made the whole process a lot easier and quicker for a lot of people.

considering that as soon as the suspicion and analysis came out, both parties concerned admitted to everything.

[nirvAnA]

I think some of ToT actually knew about it, since I heard one of their star players did help level up his account on ladder, as did another up and comer from another team. I guess they just didn't wanna be involved in it, which brings me to my next point. If thats the case why reveal it now? Not the wisest move, and any anonymous tips like the one i received which lead to us uncovering the evidence would have been very helpful and saved us a lot of time.

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FaDeHellfyre:

for saying what i'm trying to, but much much better :P

[alwaysdryToT]

The only reason I expose it so late is I just know it today. haha, no more extra drama, end of story

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	seminaked:	sb老干
	AlopexToT:

[alwaysdryToT]

We didnt know he smurf in tournament，thought only on ladder games. and we tried to expose him before but someone come to stop us.

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	TCPLemminks:	EXTRA DRAMA? WHO?
	nirvAnA:
	FaDeHellfyre:	thanks for clearing that up :)

[Cyanide]

I think we should not press on any further. The case has already been closed.
Just let it be known that if you wanted to stay anonymous, you could always PM the admins. I'm sure they will hold that information as well as your identity with discretion.

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nirvAnA:

Yup, thats exactly what happened with the tip we got :)

[SmirkToT]

i somehow know it for a long time
but no proof. (what kice was acting before obvious evidence?)
its just rossi too gosu(found he was following seohyoen in twitch account)

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AlopexToT:

[deL]

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Snx.FigJig:

how long did it take to find this one? good work m8!

[breadfan]

Haven't had the chance to talk to CHoBo but given what he's posted, I don't think I need to.

Just wanted to add that I feel really let down personally, as someone who 1) paid for coaching from him, and 2) recommended his coaching to others. Back when this was a question of him hacking, I was ready to jump in and make a post backing him up - I didn't think he was a hacker. Given the outcome though, I'm glad not to have thrown in my support. I mean, cheating is cheating.

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nirvAnA:

[Kepler]

It's still very surreal to know someone personally that was embroiled in so much drama.

I'm glad that Nirvana and Iaguz, among others, took their time with analysis and allowed the actual truth to come to light.

[deL]

I'd like to see CHoBo banned until he refunds all of his coaching students or at least donates the money he made from it to sc2sea to go back into the community.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by ChesthairMcBiceps

I'd like to see CHoBo banned until he refunds all of his coaching students or at least donates the money he made from it to sc2sea to go back into the community.

That's not really fair. Having a punishment that applies for tournaments for cheating in tournaments is pretty reasonable to me

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nirvAnA:

Yeap, same thing we did for the map hackers caught

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by breadfan

That's not really fair. Having a punishment that applies for tournaments for cheating in tournaments is pretty reasonable to me

What is a suitable punishment for cheating coaching students?.. The guy was a lying little worm that took people's money based on a lie!?!!...

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TAavanar:

i agree with chad and del on this

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

What is a suitable punishment for cheating coaching students?.. The guy was a lying little worm that took people's money based on a lie!?!!...

As someone who actually was coached, I feel I'm in a qualified position to give insight on this. Beyond this I really don't want to get involved though, I'm not trying to defend any of the smurfing or anything at all, so don't get the wrong idea. I just think demanding refunds for everyone for chunks of $20 (that were probably supplemented into weekly income, rather than put aside in a managed fund or something) is wrong. And wrong in principle, not only in this one case.

I paid for coaching, and I got the coaching I paid for. He spent the time in sessions, he analysed replays, and he answered questions. I improved at least as much as I expected to from coaching. I'm paying for that time, not for his ability. Coaching isn't all about what level of GM someone is - I'm pretty confident I got coached by a GM player, whether he is top 10 or top 200 GM doesn't really make a difference, at least for me. Coaching style and methods are more important - the person needs to be able to transfer their skill to you. I feel you'd get more out of coaching with a master's player who is able to effectively communicate and teach you than IM_Mvp, if Mvp wasn't able to communicate in a way that enabled transfer of skill.

As I said in a previous post, my biggest concern is that people who I recommended him to might feel differently than I. They may genuinely feel ripped off, and that might reflect poorly on me. However, that's more of a personal issue. I don't feel I'm owed any money or anything.

Quick Comments

	Rage:	This was my point. Anyone short of top GM themselves will get just as much coaching from a low GM/masters as from top GM
	CHoBo(kice):
	MooZfY:
	Zealo:
	AsGNabi:
	nirvAnA:
	ToRSpartaz:

[souljah]

Originally Posted by breadfan

That's not really fair. Having a punishment that applies for tournaments for cheating in tournaments is pretty reasonable to me

Thing is, when Seohyeon smurfed laddering for him, it got him so high in GM ranking that Chobo was actually made a GM Manual coach. In this, he not only "stole" money from tournaments in having seohyeon play for him in Masters Cup, but also in getting money from the community in coaching, when he clearly isn't at said level1

Quick Comments

	AsGNabi:	chobo was gm before seo was laddering him fyi
	syfChadMann:	Counter - yo

[Bash]

Originally Posted by souljah

Thing is, when Seohyeon smurfed laddering for him, it got him so high in GM ranking that Chobo was actually made a GM Manual coach. In this, he not only "stole" money from tournaments in having seohyeon play for him in Masters Cup, but also in getting money from the community in coaching, when he clearly isn't at said level1

People did recommend his coaching to others though, maybe his credentials werent legit, but he did have some happy students that obviously enjoyed the experience, so he must've been coaching alright, and if anyone was displeased with it then i suspect they wouldve come forward and said so,

Not saying he didnt dick everyone around way too much, but he did provide a service to those he coached.

+1 to forum ban though, atleast for a little while.

[CHoBo(kice)]

I will happily take a forum ban if that is what everyone wants.

[deL]

Originally Posted by breadfan

That's not really fair. Having a punishment that applies for tournaments for cheating in tournaments is pretty reasonable to me

He also cheated in ladder, and decieved people about his actual skill level which lead him to becoming a coach on the site - damaging the site and community as well as anyone who recieved training from him. It really doesn't show that he is apologetic or in any way remorseful of his actions unless he offered these things.

[Nerphed]

Originally Posted by ChesthairMcBiceps

I'd like to see CHoBo banned until he refunds all of his coaching students or at least donates the money he made from it to sc2sea to go back into the community.

See, I recieved coaching from him and while yes, it did come as a surprise that he smurfed a tournament,
his coaching was still valid, still helped and I got what I paid for, I think you need to understand that wanting him to be a bad player cos he annoyed you, is alot different to him actually being a bad player. At least, that's how I read you feel about it.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	Thanks for sharing. He was indeed GM, just not "Top level" gm
	AsGNabi: