[thsteal]

Hi everyone,

Im brand new to starcraft, i've been playing for about 1 and a half weeks now but i cant seem to get my head around protoss.

When I origionally did my placements I was placed in high gold, and beat almost every terran/zerg I came up against, but ive had endless difficulty vs protoss. I'm continuously scouting, using scans to watch for a DT tech patch or Collosi path, if I see him going DT i get a engineering bay and put down turrets, if he goes collosi I go vikings. Now if im doing these shouldnt it mean I should win? i have a maxed bio army and hes still on 1-2 bases while im on 3 looking preparing for a fourth. But as soon as I attack he steamrolls me. even off 1 base I get demolished, I send in 10+ vikings during a skirmish and they instantly get killed by his stalkers.

Ive also tried putting on early pressure vs fast expands but I always seem to get matched with a protos on a map where theres a tiny choke leading to their natural and I lose half my units going in from a cannon and his miniature army.

A few questions i would love answered:

1. How many vikings should i have per collosi on average?
2. What are some good timings to push forge fast expands?(How many units will they have when i first initiate etc)
3. How do I kill a turtling protoss?
4. Are hellion rushes at all efficent vs 1 or 2 basing protoss?

I could think of a million more questions because im so new but I dont want to annoy a community that im brand new to haha

Any tips on what I can try? or any questions about how I play so I can better explain my situation?

Edit: im on the US server so sorry if anyone tries to add me but im not sur how to swap over to SEA.
Thanks a million in advance

[breadfan]

What would help most is if you posted a replay or two for people to check out. Here's some general advice (I'm at about the same level)

1. Just a handful when you see them should be plenty - the trick is to focus fire the colossi down, and don't fly right into a big pile of stalkers to do so. Get a good angle. Obviously, he knows your vikings are going to cause him a problem, so that's what he's going to target. Also, split your units appropriately for storms, etc etc
2. 1/1/1 w/ banshees, 3 rax are a couple
3. Harass consistently (drops, banshees, reapers, hellion run bys), so that he 1) is afraid to move out 2) has to split his army up around his bases to cover. Protoss have this death ball style of play where for the most part their army wants to be grouped up. Also, at gold league in general, people aren't proficient at multi tasking (and it's still a challenge all the way up) - multi-pronged attacks are definitely something to work on. When a protoss turtles, that means you are free to move around the map - do a little damage here and there and don't be afraid to run away. Take a bunch more expansions, take the gold base/s, and build your economy and structures such that if you lose a battle, you can remax your army in no time.
4. Hellions are great for taking out workers, and not much else. Theoretically zealots and sentries although they might have 2 much health - I don't know.

What unit composition are you going for? Marauders are fantastic against all tier 1 units and buildings, and protoss generally eat any kind of mech play alive. A handful of stimmed marauders will take down a cannon like it's nothing.

My advice is to make sure you can do damage to his economy - banshees, drops, hellion run bys, anything to kill off probes. Killing workers is the simplest way to get an advantage.

Quick Comments

ETL.ViTaL:

[syfChadMann]

5 rax all in.. Stim concus - am i rite Arnor?..

Quick Comments

Mayo:

[Cordance]

"I have a maxed bio army" vs Collosi just isnt going to work very well. With out seeing a replay here are a few tips.
Macro, go over your macro look for any moment you where not building SVCs before the point you decided you had enough. Look for any moment you where not building units. These points are when your macro is failing any failing in macro means their army is larger than you want it to be.
Upgrades, if your engaging a protos deathball and you dont have 3/3 your in trouble. Catch is if they have 3/3 your still in trouble. Your Bio army should be weighted towards Marauders. Ghosts and EMPs will help a lot, they deal with shields and casters.
Now onto more important points Bio vs protos you need to harass. You need to make sure they arnt getting their deathball together not teching right once they have it. Hellions early game are good. Timing attacks, sorry dont have any timings off the top of my head. Drops are good.
Maxed army vs maxed army the numbers are not stacked in your favor even if you have vikings to take out collosi.
Dealing with FFE (forge fast expand) you either want to push very very quickly 2 rax play perhaps. Where they have basically nothing other than a cannon or two that you can walk around. Alternatively expand yourself ... why not double expand they dont have any units to attack with. This will speed your macro up a significant amount.

[NioXin]

I am thinking dont let it get to late game vs toss, (I play protoss btw and I have trouble vs Terran ^^,) So yeh, if you see Colossi tech path, switch to heavy marauder play, its easy to switch to coz you shouydl already have a bunch of rax and tech labs hanging off your factories... the onyl thing you may have issue with is if they are good with there forrce fields and block you out. Either get a lucky ghost EMp on the sentries, or rush in and out with a few units until you can wear dont senry energy. But stimmed rauders vs colossi is strong, they also murder stalkers. Maybe we coulld practice this in Custom games... Add me up yo.

[cruxBsK]

Welcome to the forums - you can switch to the SEA server on the initial login screen bu clicking the button that appears down to the bottom left then you will be able to select the server South East Asia (SEA).

PvT is a match up that's frustrating for most Terran players, I've recently learnt its all about eaking out small advantages scouting and adjusting your army to what they are getting.

Scouting - at the start I send my scout out around 14 supply to check around in the Protoss base when I get there I'm looking for a few things.

1. I'm looking for how many gasses the protoss is getting this will tell me if its likely going to be fast expand or some sort of tech play (or 4 gate)
2. How much Chrono boost is saved up (if any at all) is he using it on his probes? (probably going for fast expand) is he using it on his gateway and/or core? (if yes on gateway and core you are to expect a stalker zealot pressure.
3. How many pylons are in his base? Obviously when you first arrive you be looking for the above once you have done this when you are about to leave make sure you see if he has 3 pylons in his base (if there are only 2 it means there's going to be one out on the map somewhere (which I use my scouting scv to check for the most likely spot for the pylon and kill it)

Later I throw down a scan around the 8-10 mins mark on where his production is so i can see if i need to go ghost or viking (robo = colo council = temps)

Other things you can do (which I need to do a lot more) is try and keep map control as you can use this to drop into the Protoss base with 1 or 2 medivacs depending on how many bases you are on generally 2 base you send 1 medivac and 3 you can send 2 medivacs i put marines (but some marauder is ok) do what damage you can then run away (DONT OVER EXTEND HERE)

Other things you need to be doing it ensuring you are taking bases and adding production facilities (there's no point having 3 rax and 500 minerals banked) more productions and nothing building in everything is better than just having that money sitting there with 3 rax queued up with 4 things.

Mid-Late game

This is the hard bit, it generally requires good mirco and macro (dodging storms sniping temps and targeting down archons on low hp, moving vikings around to attack collo (you generally want around 10 vikings if they are colo heavy and BE READY FOR THE SWITCH TO TEMPS) also you NEED to get UPGRADES double engi bays are a MUST now days as toss are generally at some stage getting double ups chrono boosted out.

The rest is taking small victories and denying expansions and keep macroing and expanding!

Hopefully this helps a bit its a bit all over the place but this is the kind of things i try do every game in pvt (im in currently playing players from time to time)

If i remember I will look for some games to add (however I'm sure there are some outstanding examples in our replay feedback forum) which the guys over there do an outstanding job of analyzing.

Enjoy once again welcome!

Quick Comments

	Eldrid:	SO HANDSOME!
	MooZfY:
	FS.Kezz:	:)
	VB_heathen:	I've heard this all before but do i ever do it,no. Really good post, Need this drilled into my head.

[thsteal]

Hey thanks for the replies, im going to go over a few of your ideas and il get back to everyone on my progression

[cruxBsK]

sounds good mate GLHF

[grolich]

Hey!
I'm sure more people would love to help more - but that would require some replays showing the exact problems, or we're all doing guesswork.

Generally protoss should have a difficult time in the early game against the terrans and should have to block off their ramp using force fields to survive - if one group of marines and marauders gets up that ramp before he has immortals/collosi - he should be in deep trouble.

So usually you keep pressuring him to delay his tech up and his economy until he gets colossi.
If while you're doing that you're taking care to macro up on bases, orbital commands, production facilities, workers and unit production - you should be in at least a good shape for the confrontation - and be able to produce a lot faster than him (hope you have several orbital commands by now, not just command centers - and am able to call lots of MULEs, they do make quite a difference).

To be certain - at what time do they usually get the first colossus? what's the supply/bases/unit status by then? at what time is the first confrontation? and are you attacking regularly throughout until he techs?
(Just to make sure you're putting enough pressure on him)

I'm at your level, and it's just some of my knowledge and thoughts combined, but, Please give a replay so that both me and others can help more

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[|Erasmus|]

Yeah, pressuring up until you see colossi is good. Pulling back and taking a third base as soon as you see colossi is also really good. Then switch into vikings and get 4-6 vikings and get the third secured before moving back out onto the map. If you're worried (and the protoss also takes a third around this time) you can start trying to drop harass becase colossi on 2 base = most of their gas, so not massive amounts of stalkers or blink to deny drops.

This should stop them from being able to move out with the first 1-2 colossi and try and do some pressure before your viking production kicks in.

[thsteal]

Hey thanks for all the replies, ive pretty much sorted out my problem with protos. After going over my replays and using unit tester maps I discovered my marine to marauder ratio wasnt very good (I had like 5 marines to every marauder). Ive switched my playstyle around so instead of having 1 tech lab and 2-3 reactored barracks to 1 tech and 4 naked rax so if they tech collossi i can slap on 4 techs or if they go void ray i can pop on reactors. The only questions i have now are..

Is there any place to find a good list of timings? eg DT/Void ray/4-6 gate pushes or muta for zerg?

Before I ask this last question. I realise that this site provides amazing coatching if required. but since im only a new player i dont feel spending money would be that beneficial for me. I was wondering if any player preferably on the NA server could add me in game? so i can ask on the fly questions. preferrably terran as its the race I currently play. Im not worried about what level of player you are i would just like someone to toss ideas around with instead of writing out a big post and waiting for a reply while i get smashed by the same cheese etc

Edit: I realise that my rax tactic wont work forever also. Dont get me wrong i know its flawed haha

Thanks again
Thsteal

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by thsteal

Hey thanks for all the replies, ive pretty much sorted out my problem with protos. After going over my replays and using unit tester maps I discovered my marine to marauder ratio wasnt very good (I had like 5 marines to every marauder). Ive switched my playstyle around so instead of having 1 tech lab and 2-3 reactored barracks to 1 tech and 4 naked rax so if they tech collossi i can slap on 4 techs or if they go void ray i can pop on reactors. The only questions i have now are..

Is there any place to find a good list of timings? eg DT/Void ray/4-6 gate pushes or muta for zerg?

Before I ask this last question. I realise that this site provides amazing coatching if required. but since im only a new player i dont feel spending money would be that beneficial for me. I was wondering if any player preferably on the NA server could add me in game? so i can ask on the fly questions. preferrably terran as its the race I currently play. Im not worried about what level of player you are i would just like someone to toss ideas around with instead of writing out a big post and waiting for a reply while i get smashed by the same cheese etc

Edit: I realise that my rax tactic wont work forever also. Dont get me wrong i know its flawed haha

Thanks again
Thsteal

There is a "sc2sea" channel on both SEA and NA where there sometimes people from here hanging out (often only me and fur on NA, but we're both terran and I'm diamond and he's masters...). Other than that a lot of the clans have chat channels with people who'll usually answer some simple questions. Less active on NA than SEA, but you can always jump in the ToR channel (just "ToR") and ask a question if you want to.

[AxSGRiM]

1. How many vikings should i have per collosi on average?
probably 3-4.
2. What are some good timings to push forge fast expands?(How many units will they have when i first initiate etc)
FFe doesn't work versus Terran. 2 Rax pressure (search the build up yourself) is a very strong pressure to kill early protoss expansions.
3. How do I kill a turtling protoss?
Keep on scouting what their army is eing composed of, and then expand more than the protoss so you get ahead in army and economy.
4. Are hellion rushes at all efficent vs 1 or 2 basing protoss?
4 Hellions that are made from a reactored factory will do a lot of damage to the protoss economy, obviously unless he has sealed off his base, but if he is expanding and his units are spread out you can do a lot of damage.

[Sc2Clare]

1. How many vikings should i have per collosi on average?
bout 4-6 for me
2. What are some good timings to push forge fast expands?(How many units will they have when i first initiate etc)
if a protoss goes ffe, i just go for 1/1/1. most probably they wont have any units
3. How do I kill a turtling protoss?
drops and expand more yourself
4. Are hellion rushes at all efficent vs 1 or 2 basing protoss?
hellion drops are~

have u tried playing around with ghosts???? they can change the battle with just 1 emp.
have u macroed well enough??? constant scv production is really important for terran
do you always overeact to things that might not be comming???overreacting like building turrets everywhere in anticipation for dt that are not comming is wasted money

[Goldie]

1 rax expo is always good vs toss

[VB_davidbloop]

I also find my TvP matchup is my worst but have started to learn that upgraded marauders and vikings are my friends.

[Goldie]

u reallly need just enough vikigns to one shot a colo

[|Erasmus|]

That is completely ridiculous unless they are way overproducing them. Unless they are going for something stupid like 6+ colossi, that's just a silly use of a lot of gas and supply on units that are terribly against anything but colossi.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Goldie

u reallly need just enough vikigns to one shot a colo

Do you actually know what this is by chance? I don't actually know, I just go for a rough 6-8 and let it sort itself out.

[cruxBsK]

the thing that really f's me is the switches back and forth switches just owns me.