[crAzerk]

i believe he did this to counteract the anti caps lock sheezy. If you write everything in caps nirvana made it so it all becomes lowercase.

oh! That's cool! I never knew that! Guess i don't yell enough (this message is entirely in caps if it becomes lower case you know why)

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Santi

I think for moonglade is ok, but who cares about tgun that guy is not even that good. So who cares if he plays for mineski, bad luck for them to get the average top sea player and not the good guy.

Standard Santi, bming me at every chance

[TAScarecrow]

tgun and glade asking for a fair % of the prizemoney if their teams win just seems wrong. Last SEACL there was a rule against this sort of merc'ing, now nirvana wants them to play for teams they're completely unaffiliated with and allow them access to prizemoney as well?

I think this would also run better as primarily a clan league with any sponsored teams that are big enough to participate doing so. Catering this for xgking (3 players) will make for a shitty format (even worse if glade is on a team), instead maybe get the smaller sponsored teams to merge for this or take players from their feeder clans (e.g. maybe SQLTKing and TArcMSI)

Herocraft isn't a bad alternative, especially if it's a larger format.

@Sensei it was just an example, half of King's lineup used to be TA too. I haven't forgotten you guys :P

Quick Comments

	cRSenSei:	wtf SQLTKing.. half of SQLT's lineup is from TA bro!
	TAEdgE:	anti-sensei train
	TAriiChard:	ANTI SENSEI TRAAAAIN!

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

hy not let them revive herocraft but they are just playing for fun and are inelligible for the prizemoney, that way we know they are really playing to contribute to the event and clan scene rather than wanting to cash in on a prize tourney without putting in the effort to be part of a clan ;D

But then they'd be taking points away from teams in the running to win it.

[nirvAnA]

its hard to please everyone, let me explain my rationale for the way the format is such at the moment.

1. we want moonglade and tgun to play in this league, hence this "mercenary" solution. moonglade just casually streaming by himself already gets more viewers then all our other events except the masters cup. people want to watch moonglade. we want more viewers to keep sponsors happy. if a better solution comes up, ill use it.

herocraft is not viable imo because having a "clanless" or "mercenary" team will mean 1 legitimate team is axed. a merc team has no sponsors and its different from what we are trying to accomplish, getting sponsored teams / players air time and keeping their sponsors happy - giving them more reason to sponsor other players or increase their budget. Or getting other strong teams like SPR attention so they can get a good sponsor - all of which will help develop the esports scene in SEA by allowing players to commit more and take their game to the next level because of the support they are getting.

that is why "mercenaries" was allowed, moonglade,tgun = more viewers and the teams / esports scene has a higher chance to develop.

2. pro teams / clan issue - we want to promote the pro teams to grow the scene, hence theres a priority to teams over clans in the case players belong to both. we want to keep sponsors of teams happy with a major event. at the same time, not including clans would mean alot of top players with no "team" or that are too small like TargA, iceiceice, yoonyj, rev etc will be excluded.

thats is why this pro team+clan format is chosen, to include virtually every top player in SEA so the league is as exciting as possible, which will lead to more viewers.

3. TCL format of 4-5 matches. not very in depth yes but its to accommodate teams like SQLT and xGking who have few players.

thats is why this match day format is chosen, so smaller sized teams with 3-4 players who are still growing will not be so handicapped.

everything was thought about before being suggested. threads like these were made so we can get more ideas and incorporate the better solutions that others have suggested. the admins are reading what is said here and will consider various viewpoints before coming up with the final format. we cannot please everyone but we will do our best to come up with an optimal format based on the circumstances we face.

it may sound like theres alot of disagreement but that happened in our first SEASL#1 too and that went out to be a huge success regardless of many of the "disagreements" with most ending up being the right decisions anyway. so I hope people don't take this "negativity" in this thread the wrong way, but instead look forward to the SEACL #2 and are excited we FINALLY have a nice league to play in, its been such a long wait!

JoFritz has sent me the money already and registrations will open soon!

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	well said
	TAriiChard:	I don't like this
	Uglymutt:	Well reasoned

[xpaperclip]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

moonglade just casually streaming by himself already gets more viewers then all our other events except the masters cup. people want to watch moonglade.

While I agree Glade certainly has pulling power, the very exception of Masters Cup (especially this past one) demonstrates the underlying reason - the TL stream list. Benji has also discussed this before. Getting on the TL stream list is crucial for getting viewers. As far as I'm aware, the immediate past Masters Cup didn't particularly have any player-based advertising, but the very fact that there were no other events on at the time on TL lead to larger viewership. In fact, if I recall, the reason I found out about sc2sea.com was the SEA v Ret showmatch series.

---

I don't want to speak for anyone, but as I said in the chatbox today, I don't believe people are demanding their view be the one ultimately implemented, but are instead just expressing their views so it can be heard and taken into consideration so the league can be a success.

Probably good early discussion for SEACL 3 too, right?

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

1. we want moonglade and tgun to play in this league, hence this "mercenary" solution. moonglade just casually streaming by himself already gets more viewers then all our other events except the masters cup. people want to watch moonglade. we want more viewers to keep sponsors happy. if a better solution comes up, ill use it.

herocraft is not viable imo because having a "clanless" or "mercenary" team will mean 1 legitimate team is axed. a merc team has no sponsors and its different from what we are trying to accomplish, getting sponsored teams / players air time and keeping their sponsors happy - giving them more reason to sponsor other players or increase their budget. Or getting other strong teams like SPR attention so they can get a good sponsor - all of which will help develop the esports scene in SEA by allowing players to commit more and take their game to the next level because of the support they are getting.

that is why "mercenaries" was allowed, moonglade,tgun = more viewers and the teams / esports scene has a higher chance to develop.

you've got to be joking

[TAEdgE]

I'm not liking where any of this is going

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by TARossi

you've got to be joking

Care to elaborate?

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Care to elaborate?

just expressing that im against what he is saying basically. I dont like the justifications of his argument and the direction this tournament is going.

[BaKaiNu]

I think the solution is to leave tgun and moonglade be mercenaries and see which clan would hire them. The details can be sorted out between the team and the mercenaries, this can be applied to other players in smaller teams as well. Both tgun and moonglade could get better offers which may benefit themselves while the team get their services. I think for us to grow, we should not put so much control over the scene and let it sort itself out. We should be the facilitator, not the dictator.

[ROOT`iaguz]

I really don't feel comfortable with that idea because the team that bids the highest amount of the prize pool gets Glade. There's no other way of negotiating and Glade is NOT joining any current SEA team/clan.

Now I'm happy to have xGKingGlade but that's ******* stupid. Plus I don't think Timhe would appreciate it.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

exactly

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

1. we want moonglade and tgun to play in this league, hence this "mercenary" solution. moonglade just casually streaming by himself already gets more viewers then all our other events except the masters cup. people want to watch moonglade. we want more viewers to keep sponsors happy. if a better solution comes up, ill use it.

herocraft is not viable imo because having a "clanless" or "mercenary" team will mean 1 legitimate team is axed. a merc team has no sponsors and its different from what we are trying to accomplish, getting sponsored teams / players air time and keeping their sponsors happy - giving them more reason to sponsor other players or increase their budget. Or getting other strong teams like SPR attention so they can get a good sponsor - all of which will help develop the esports scene in SEA by allowing players to commit more and take their game to the next level because of the support they are getting.

that is why "mercenaries" was allowed, moonglade,tgun = more viewers and the teams / esports scene has a higher chance to develop.

!

And I don't like this reasoning because a team that has Glade could get attention for stuff the team did not actually do. If a shitty team can get first because Glade just happens to beat everybody no problem then how is that good for that team?

Pretty good for Glade though.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	akky:

[nirvAnA]

yea iaguz i am aware of that, it isnt a perfect solution. also its not all kill format and as you've said before glade isn't so invincible anymore!

do you have any suggestions on how else to include glade/tgun?

[TAEdgE]

I want to know why they want to play formally first. I have my suspicious for both, and i may have missed a post by them, but i'll ask this just out of personal whim:

@Andy and Brad - if you are allowed to play in this, but are not awarded prize money at the end, would you still play?

[Nemo]

Rossi, Edge, Riichard, this subject is not really my business as I'm not actor in this, but from a exterior point of view, I don't understand your opinion because it lacks arguments.

What I understand from Nirvana point of view is :

• Glade is popular, let's use him to get more viewers = more money in this
• Having all the top players in it, even if they don't have a team that can compete will make it more popular then => more money

More money => better for the community as a whole even if for the guys that already belongs to top teams it will be harder to get the prizes.


Are your arguments => It won't bring more money and it's unfair for those who already are in top teams ? In this case, could you explain the first one (as the second one is clear like that) ?

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Rossi, Edge, Riichard, this subject is not really my business as I'm not actor in this, but from a exterior point of view, I don't understand your opinion because it lacks arguments.

What I understand from Nirvana point of view is :

• Glade is popular, let's use him to get more viewers = more money in this
• Having all the top players in it, even if they don't have a team that can compete will make it more popular then => more money

More money => better for the community as a whole even if for the guys that already belongs to top teams it will be harder to get the prizes.


Are your arguments => It won't bring more money and it's unfair for those who already are in top teams ? In this case, could you explain the first one (as the second one is clear like that) ?

Well firstly i haven't presented an argument Nemo, i said i don't like where this is going and i ment the thread in general - i have my disagreements with format and mercenaries in certain areas, but just the discussion itself. I just said 'it's hard to find an agreement that everyone will enjoy' in my own silly way

I'll post later when i can form points, as i have tried not to look too much into it yet.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for the precision :)

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Rossi, Edge, Riichard, this subject is not really my business as I'm not actor in this, but from a exterior point of view, I don't understand your opinion because it lacks arguments.

What I understand from Nirvana point of view is :

• Glade is popular, let's use him to get more viewers = more money in this
• Having all the top players in it, even if they don't have a team that can compete will make it more popular then => more money

More money => better for the community as a whole even if for the guys that already belongs to top teams it will be harder to get the prizes.


Are your arguments => It won't bring more money and it's unfair for those who already are in top teams ? In this case, could you explain the first one (as the second one is clear like that) ?

my point of view is that money should not be the primary factor for decisions regarding this league

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks for the precision :)

[mOOnGLaDe]

This sounds like too much trouble count me out, sorry mith

[TAScarecrow]

I still think a 'Team 8' led by Glade would be the best solution (as the majority vote wants them to play in some capacity, just not necessarily as mercs). It's a great way of showcasing some of SEA's top unsponsored players to the sponsors of current and future teams. Glade can pick out some unknowns and bring them into the spotlight. Instead of getting rid of any tier 1 team maybe just merge any 2 of the smaller ones to allow a spot for a new Herocraft/Team 8/SlayerSesque team.

Hopefully this'll lead to a slightly deeper format too. It's hard to take a TCL Bo4 format seriously and will just reinforce impressions of SEA as the minnow server. Basically I feel compromising the tourney for 3-4 player teams is not the best move; if such teams want to participate (i doubt they'll sit out whilst other bigger sponsors get coverage) they can pick up 1-2 extra's or form a one off alliance.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	I like this
	NvRossi:	me 2
	Maynarde:
	:	me 3
	syfChadMann:	me 4
	Frogmite:	me tex
	Champi:	best solution, go with it
	Fadey:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	simon:
	breadfan:
	SLCN.NXZ:	Best thing that ever happened to this thread
	TADivinity:	Yes.
	MooZfY:	CCCCCCC-COMBO BREAKER