[FXOBoSs]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.
EDIT - actually I'm going to explain this a bit more.. just so I don't get silly responses..
If you want to grow something that has no ROI benefit.. it's hard to get external investment. So you have to prop it up and bleed funds into it to bolster it while it finds its feet. Fake self-sufficiency until the beast can support itself. make sense? okay.. good, now go support eSports how ever you can. ty

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

E-sports isn't so easy. There are numerous reasons why. Firstly, there is not enough general interest (viewership wise as a whole) to lure the sponsors that matter (non IT/gaming brands).

Next you have also calculate how long you are actually going to waste (better word than bleed) money to try to 'prop up' a saturated market of people wasting money.

Then you have to decide what kind of ROI you are actually looking for, whether its sales, cash, awareness.

99% of sponsors in e-sports are in it for sales. When sales dry up, they disappear. There is no self sustaining model in e-sports yet, because it relies purely on sponsorships. And because the market is so niche, unless a self sustaining model appears, it will die again (everyone is working on finding a self sustaining model).

The problem with the vision you have is not that you are wrong, but that SEA is so far behind in business development, most of the companies involved or willing to be involved in e-sports have already got their sales from AUS via other, bigger, brands.

The best way to change the trend would be to some how, make ACL 3x bigger on the same budget. Have people do active video media for ACL that is viral (reddit TL etc) and then bank on that.

Anyway, the problem with business in e-sports is that no one has been successful before. Whoever can become successful, will be the ones that live forever and can potentially monopolize.

re: sending my team members to mlg, this fits hand in hand with what I am saying. The only possible way for me to get any sign of a return is to have the people on my team go. Otherwise its just dead air and money, and most probably promoting other peoples sponsors. No one works for free, we all look to get something out of it, that includes self satisfaction.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

That's the way it works and too few people understand it

[Fenner]

Originally Posted by PiG

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P

I might actually give this a shot since I have some downtime from sc2 right now!

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

do it do it do it!

[syfChadMann]

Exactly why I'm suggesting proping up the production of ACL and other events with 'wasted' money. You know it needs to get bigger, a great step would be to have international players enticed by the prize pool.. Bringing big names to play, and even cast the event will aid in SEA's exposure.

The issue about self sustainability isn't easy to reach as fans aren't willing to pay for content, and there is little to no merchandise to provide an income stream.. If everyone paid $5 to physically enter ACL the bought a replica team shirt from a stand inside, you might get sustainability.. Like sport, what can we learn from sporting teams about this!?..

Imagine the day there is a team league.. And we fly with our team colours on to GAMECOM.Nv stadium to watch iM v Nv... Or tune in to the action on mainstream television.. That would be amazing. I think it's a very long way off.. But professionalism and devotion is the first step. Then spread the passion!!..

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

Be interesting to see what people feel about paying an entry fee. I'd be happy to pay $5 as suggested...

[FXOBoSs]

The only thing I can do to prop up ACL is to offer our casting and bring our own audience to the event. That is the FXOpen name with the audience thats attached to it.

But again, its a business deal technically.

Both parties gain from the exposure.. But its entirely up to ACL whether they want that to happen.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by FXOBoSs

The only thing I can do to prop up ACL is to offer our casting and bring our own audience to the event. That is the FXOpen name with the audience thats attached to it.

But again, its a business deal technically.

Both parties gain from the exposure.. But its entirely up to ACL whether they want that to happen.

This post is completely up in the clouds ~ take it with a grain of salt.

Do it then!~ I'm sure just an offer from FXO to ACL wouldn't hurt, to see what potential growth it could bring to the league, even a one off event with a boosted prize pool big enough to get internationals to fly down (I'm sure that some teams with the cash would love to visit australia, and think it may be an easy win for them).

As you said, both parties would gain from exposure, and it's exposure everyone wants.

With ACL's amazing production value (seriously i think that the stream and everything looks mint) could gain ACL some followers to those who have never really heard of it, in the long run.
I for one know that everyone i've talked to that watched an ACL event has loved it and said that it's entertaining.

The name just isn't out there on an international level just yet. and maybe it's the boost that it needs. I'd like to see how this pans out.

[FXOBoSs]

Originally Posted by inFeZa

This post is completely up in the clouds ~ take it with a grain of salt.

Do it then!~ I'm sure just an offer from FXO to ACL wouldn't hurt, to see what potential growth it could bring to the league, even a one off event with a boosted prize pool big enough to get internationals to fly down (I'm sure that some teams with the cash would love to visit australia, and think it may be an easy win for them).

As you said, both parties would gain from exposure, and it's exposure everyone wants.

With ACL's amazing production value (seriously i think that the stream and everything looks mint) could gain ACL some followers to those who have never really heard of it, in the long run.
I for one know that everyone i've talked to that watched an ACL event has loved it and said that it's entertaining.

The name just isn't out there on an international level just yet. and maybe it's the boost that it needs. I'd like to see how this pans out.

Its entirely up to them. I am not offering them money, just the casting services (which cost me money).

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by FXOBoSs

Its entirely up to them. I am not offering them money, just the casting services (which cost me money).

I think you'd get more out of it using that money to boost the prize pool and advertise that way and also help out ACL or you could send a player down to compete in the tournament, essentially not giving ACL anything except for the viewers who would tune in to watch that player if you announce he's coming down to play. (if he's allowed)

[Dox]

Originally Posted by FXOBoSs

Its entirely up to them. I am not offering them money, just the casting services (which cost me money).

Casting services isn't really an area we're lacking in though. To be honest, one of the most valuable things you could do would be to spread the word. And that's free!

Quick Comments

x5_dot:

yay spread the wordd!

[cruxSpoon]

Originally Posted by Dox

Casting services isn't really an area we're lacking in though. To be honest, one of the most valuable things you could do would be to spread the word. And that's free!

Our casters are brilliant, however, I feel that SEA could still benefit from an offer that BoSs is proposing.

Bringing Wolf over would bring viewers who follow wolf, which brings exposure, which is our endgame goal. Its not about capability, cause our casters are extremely capable, its about exposure.

Having said that, I doubt Wolf (or someone equally e-famous) would want to come over considering their already busy schedule.

EDIT: I did not realise this dox, apologies. Still point still stands, not as strong though :P

Quick Comments

Dox:

Wolf departed FXO a very, very long time ago

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by cruxSpoon

Our casters are brilliant, however, I feel that SEA could still benefit from an offer that BoSs is proposing.

Bringing Wolf over would bring viewers who follow wolf, which brings exposure, which is our endgame goal. Its not about capability, cause our casters are extremely capable, its about exposure.

Having said that, I doubt Wolf (or someone equally e-famous) would want to come over considering their already busy schedule.

havn't people like tasteless and artosis said they want to visit nz/aus? might as well give it a go. I'll read up this thread tomorrow and give my 2 cents. love these discussions. also love the fact FXOBoss is taking the time out to discuss this with us .

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

Don't really wanna think how much it would cost to have Tastosis over O_o

[FXOBoSs]

Originally Posted by inFeZa

I think you'd get more out of it using that money to boost the prize pool and advertise that way and also help out ACL or you could send a player down to compete in the tournament, essentially not giving ACL anything except for the viewers who would tune in to watch that player if you announce he's coming down to play. (if he's allowed)

I would get pretty much nothing out of giving money away. I'd have to become the major sponsor for it to matter which is an investment I, and my company would not be prepared to make.

[Dox]

Originally Posted by FXOBoSs

I would get pretty much nothing out of giving money away. I'd have to become the major sponsor for it to matter which is an investment I, and my company would not be prepared to make.

As I said in my previous post, nothing would make me happier than to see the occasional tweet from you and your guys along the lines of, "Hey ACL are running a big event back in my home country, check out the grand finals now! <Stream Link>". I mean, we* do it for FXO events, but it's a one way street.

I mean, this entire discussion is about growth and awareness, yet there's no co-operation. Everyone wants to do their own thing and keep their exposure in their own corner of the room. I can understand this when you've got events overlapping, but as a whole it'd be nice to see more collaboration.

* I say "we", and I'm only referring to individuals, not ACL.

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

Some promotion for us during big events would be bloody brilliant...

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by FXOBoSs

I would get pretty much nothing out of giving money away. I'd have to become the major sponsor for it to matter which is an investment I, and my company would not be prepared to make.

You're prepared to send casters, so Send a player instead! You'll get the exposure from his results. If you tweet or something that the player is playing in this tournament, more people will watch.

[ROOT`iaguz]

It would also help if we could find a weekend where absolutely nothing else was going on!

Sadly this is difficult.

Also, as a player I think I'm happier without Leenock coming down to acl. I thought the idea was to try and prevent all zerg top 8's!

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	but that'
	inFeZa:	there's pther fxo players ahhaa

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by cruxSpoon

Our casters are brilliant, however, I feel that SEA could still benefit from an offer that BoSs is proposing.

Bringing Wolf over would bring viewers who follow wolf, which brings exposure, which is our endgame goal. Its not about capability, cause our casters are extremely capable, its about exposure.

Having said that, I doubt Wolf (or someone equally e-famous) would want to come over considering their already busy schedule.

I had this discussion with wolf less than a week ago, it is not the casters themselves that bring in viewers, they are the ones who make viewers stay. Example being our last invitational, the difference in viewers between wolf casting with me me casting with raelcun casting with me was literally 0.

There are really 4 levels of casters

- Terrible ones people complain and tune out becaues of
- ones people dont like but wont complain and will mute/tune out
- good ones that make people stay and ppl like but wont go out of their way to praise them
- casters like nick and dan who ppl rave about

It is about the brand recognition, when people tune into fxopen streams they know that there will be casters of the top two tier's at least because that is what my standards have been since we started so that is what people expect. Along with the production value that we bring as well.

When it comes to casters themselves, the only casters who "bring in" viewers are nick and dan, they have said they want to AU but their price would simply be too high and they are far too busy at the moment, I will run it by them though.

Originally Posted by inFeZa

You're prepared to send casters, so Send a player instead! You'll get the exposure from his results. If you tweet or something that the player is playing in this tournament, more people will watch.

Offering streaming/casting services doesn't have to be onsite. Take for example our Malaysian Lan a few months ago, casters were offsite with me onsite to handle camera positions/interviews.Low cost high payoff

Originally Posted by Dox

"Hey ACL are running a big event back in my home country, check out the grand finals now! <Stream Link>". I mean, we* do it for FXO events, but it's a one way street.

I mean, this entire discussion is about growth and awareness, yet there's no co-operation. Everyone wants to do their own thing and keep their exposure in their own corner of the room. I can understand this when you've got events overlapping, but as a whole it'd be nice to see more collaboration.

Ok, i'll go out on a limb here and offer this co-operation between FXOpen and ACL and i'll leave the ball in your court

I'll offer FXOpen services/experience in the form of:

- our media exposure for ACL events
- Our stream/casters during the event as well to bring in additional viewers from our viewerbase
- I will consult with your production guys as the production is good now but can be much better, camera positions, bitrates/transitions etc
- our tournament admin help to reduce downtime (there was 0 downtime during our malaysian LAN)

Once again it's up to you, this is the scenario myself and boss thought up that we would help out as much as we could.

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

Sounds like a good offer to me

[Unstable]

double post fml

Quick Comments

	cruxSpoon:	Post so good had to post it twice :D
	NOM:	duuble pasta

[Kablamo]

These are just my personal opinions that I have witnessed first hand.

I definitely feel like there is that "old boys club" to the SC2SEA scene, but I feel like it is a bit more than that. The impression I have gotten is that the vast majority of community members here think of themselves as FAR more important than they really are, to put things bluntly. I've noticed that unless something is going to directly benefit a person they see helping someone else as a waste of their time, despite how much everyone proclaims to want to help the "scene grow", it's more along the lines of helping the "scene grow when it benefits me".

I've wanted to lend my talents to helping this scene out for along time, unfortunately at every step people from the community have always done something rude or straight up dick-ish that has made me want to do anything BUT help the community.

The video I released last week was originally going to be showcasing the SEA scene, in particular the Australian scene, Because of many reasons the video changed and became what it was released as... luckily I think it turned out for the better, but that's just me.
EDIT: The video mentioned can be found at: http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=5244

Obviously I don't mean everyone in the community is like this, but unfortunately in my experience the vast majority of people have been. Which really does suck. If it has happened to me in my attempts to create content for people I'm willing to bet it's happened to other more important people as well. If we want this community to grow into something truly amazing, something self sustaining, and something we can all be proud of then the first step we must take is to have a major change in our collective attitudes.

P.S I'm still open for producing video content for this community, if anyone has any potential projects you'd like to discuss shoot me a PM!

(Hope this was coherent! I kinda just wrote it up all over the place!)

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	do you have a link to that video?
	UHF:	I feel this way as well sometimes
	nirvAnA:	its unfortunate you had that expereince, but not all of us are like those you describe! :)
	cruxSpoon:	That video was awesome, i found it on reddit :D, remember, the biggest dick makes the most noise, but there aren't many

[syfChadMann]

I think alot of the collaboration and helping each other out goes on behind the scenes and not in the public domain.. I see alot of collaborations happening over Skype and not the forums. Something to keep in mind when thinking about this scene - is that we like to present things when its already sorted - so you might not see the amount someone may have spoken to Dox, Benji or Arnor or whomever about an event before launching it.. but once it is set up - I agree that it is the baby of its originator and they hold onto it tightly.

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by Kablamo

I've noticed that unless something is going to directly benefit a person they see helping someone else as a waste of their time, despite how much everyone proclaims to want to help the "scene grow", it's more along the lines of helping the "scene grow when it benefits me".

I've wanted to lend my talents to helping this scene out for along time, unfortunately at every step people from the community have always done something rude or straight up dick-ish that has made me want to do anything BUT help the community.

I just wanted to say that I haven't had that experience at all... I've found people in this community to be welcoming and friendly since I joined the forums and became involved in the scene.

Not saying that I'm oblivious to the various dramas that have gone on, and that stuff is definitely not helpful, but on a personal level I've had no bad experiences becoming a part of the community.

Quick Comments

PiG:

Yeah it really depends who you happen to randomly approach/talk to at first methinks

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by PiG

As for viewer numbers I don't know what numbers you're looking at but since Benji unlocked how to use the TL featured stream function and the rest of SEA slowly learned from that, the views on SEA events have been steadily rising higher and higher. (Edit: This was based off anecdotal evidence aka. nothing, and benji informs me numbers have stagnated over the past year:

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

This is incorrect, on average our stream viewer numbers have not significantly increased in the last year or so.

The Masters Cup has certainly increased viewers. It does flucuate at times, but over the last 9 months or so we've been averaging 10-15k (600-1500 live), where in our first 9 months or so we would have been averaging 5-10k.

This is due to a lot of factors, mainly more awareness of SEA players, the casters, our scene, and event sponsorship.

However, lately there has been a lot of competition for viewers, especially from the multiple worldwide WCS events, but we perform reasonably even so.

Our international versions have also attracted some notable/recognised names, which is pleasing, especially when SEA players perform well against them.

I believe we aren't near our peak, and i have plans to grow the tournament more, and make it better for players and worldwide audiences, and as a result, build SEA esports and show off/support our talented local players.

Originally Posted by Dox

I was under the impression that events like Masters Cup have been rising in viewers over the last 12 months. We've seen some pretty staggering numbers sometimes! Part of me wonders if this is because we omit any shred of "SEA" identity from the title of the event. I tend to think most people avoid SEA branded events because (as far as they're concerned) we have nothing to offer them.

I can't speak for other competitions, but i want people to know they are watching SEA players when watching the Masters Cup.

The official title of the Masters Cup is SEA Masters Cup. As seen on our Wikipedia page, facebook, all event banners, threads, etc. Even our International versions are SEA Masters Cups.

Sometimes the event is called the Sc2sea Masters Cup. It is usually listed as such on the TL event calander.

Originally Posted by PiG

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P

Here are a couple of good ones made by IcedTea, which we play during Masters Cups. (They are perhaps a little dated now - so many team changes!) I think these videos are a great idea, and an awesome opportunity to promote our region/events/players to the wider SC2 community.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

I'd be more than happy to run more SEA promotional ads during events, if people want to create more.

ACL videos, Barcrafts, player/team highlight videos, SEA SC2 lans, etc. I'd happily promote.

Quick Comments

	PiG:	<3
	NOM:	MORE drunken deth video's!
	nirvAnA:	Loved the IcedTea vidoes all over again!
	DUCKVILLELOL:	If anyone was willing to make a more updated version of these I would be happy to run it randomly when I'm streaming