[Atrocis]

Hey there,

been a starcraft player since beta, started out in gold, went down to bronze because i didn't play that much and that well, got placed into plat in s5 due to no activity in s4, going through all 5 placement matches and crushing 4 out of 5 players with a well timed 3-rax push, and am currently only losing against the opponents i'm facing on the ladder or when playing against friends, and i'm feeling, that my mechanics are very bad.

I always get supply blocked, haven't build many workers, have one base totally oversaturated, while the other is nearly desertlike, kinda miss many production cycles and so on.

So, to get to the point, do you think theres any use of playing repeatedly against the ai, focusing only on macro (something like, maxing out in 12 minutes over and over again, to get used to things like tabbing etc), or would this time be totally wasted?

tl;dr; training up mechanics versus ai before going to ladder?

Greetings atrocis

[Trusty]

Sounds like you already know the answer

Yes of course it is. But start with yabot, a custom map. just go to custom games and search for "+yabot"

Quick Comments

ToRSmotPokingFish:

[KFCrumpet]

tbh yes and no. That's how i got my injects down, but you do lose some game sense. This can be worked on though so overall I'd say it's a good idea. Just focus on one mechanic all the time, play a few games completely dedicated to not being supply blocked while building constant workers. Always be checking that supply. Then resource management, keep your minerals and gas in low figures all the time. The maxed out army will come with good mechanics, all of the little things add up to this part. My 2c anyway

[Atrocis]

Thanks for the fast replies!

@KFCrumpet: Makes sense, will have a look at this, thanks!

@Trusty: Okay, will check out YaBot, any further tips how i could use YaBot most efficient?

[Bash]

it can definitely help, you dont really get that sense of "oh shit i could be attacked any time" , but its helpful for getting macro right, see how quickly you can max out

[Xeen]

It's fine if you want to get used to how the build order and timings on it feel, without being punished for your focus on it.

[Ruski]

i usually just practice my macro on very easy single player, just focus on probes and pylons. When i want to learn builds I plan on switching ai to hard to better simulate pressure from opponent

[Aights]

Basically practicing macro?
Just keep consistent in your mind
SCV > UNITS > BUILDINGS > UPGRADES
Thats a VERY basic view of how you should flow (you could mix things up of course)
Every time you hit across buildings just look up at the supply
OR
Others like to think when they spam t, it's time to make a depot

[Daboo]

AI is not really that good for mechanics,because it never does anything that takes your focus away, and in that case almost anyone can macro like a god.

If you want to increase your mechanics there was something called as a multitasking trainer way back in the beta that I used. It's quite awesome.

You need to keep your money below a certain amount, micro a probe around to not die to a zergling on a separate island. Save a templar from an island. Make sure your cc energy doesnt go above 50(or something like that) and also defeat the computer. It was awesome and helped me quite a bit. it also has different levels of difficulty, I suggest starting at very easy forst.

It probably still exists, search for it in custom games.

[mOOnGLaDe]

if you wanna prac mechanics id suggest trying to force macro games in ladder games, no point playing ai as when you get to play the real deal it will be completely different

Quick Comments

	Atrocis:
	AxSGRiM:

[gandalf5000]

also a good thing to do is just focus on mechanics in ladder games, making improving those better than actually winning. helps you become less outcome focused while practicing on ladder

[Crankenstein]

When I was completely terrible (As opposed to being only mostly terrible now ) I just got my mechanics better by playing 2's 3's and 4's with friends. I found these to be halfway between playing the AI and 1's because there is still stuff going on but you don't have to follow strict build orders and timings and such... you can just focus on constant scv's, depots, and units.

That and trolling with friends in team games is more interesting than just sitting there with mr comp.

[Johnny.L]

It feels like the amount of games I've played on the ladder has helped improved my mechanics. Just keep playing and don't be afraid to lose because that's how you'll learn. If you lose a game because you were supply block multiple times then next time you'll have supply depots thinking in the back of your head.

Quick Comments

Atrocis:

[ZiggyD]

I had a Zerg coach who taught me an exercise that uses the AI. It was simply picking a unit (Roaches in this case) and maxing out to 200 as soon as possible. Write down the time and repeat. This worked well for my Zerg macro purely in terms of mechanics. The AI really si irrelevant though, it's just a placeholder for a person. The same effect could be achieved by playing by yourself.

That said, there are some AI maps (fyn AI and greentea AI) that actually resemble humans and can make for OK practice.

[Tonsh]

Originally Posted by Johnny.L

It feels like the amount of games I've played on the ladder has helped improved my mechanics. Just keep playing and don't be afraid to lose because that's how you'll learn. If you lose a game because you were supply block multiple times then next time you'll have supply depots thinking in the back of your head.

What he said keep practicing on the ladder, watch your replays and find mistakes you have made and try to work on that next game. Don't try to correct them all at once, pick one and work on that and try to master it, then pick another mistake and so forth. You might lost a few games but eventually these mistakes made will come naturally into your play and overall you'll improve and start winning pretty much what has worked for me in the past

[Atrocis]

Thanks for the great feedback guys, you are definitly helping me a lot.
I'm currently not able to play as much sc2 as i'd like to (exam week + project presentation and documentation deadline coming up), but all the input you guys gave me helped me to get a better idea what i should be doing over the next weeks, when the major part of my work is done.

Anyway, I got a follow-up question on the "play ladder games and analyze your game to find your weaknesses and work on them step for step" - approach. While playing ladder games, should i be playing an matchup apropriate build order from the beginning or start out with some standard build like 2-rax expand (even thou its rather outdated) for every matchup and diverse it after the first steps have been made while improving on mechanics or should i start by learning the current matchups with there bos and improve mechanics on those bos?

[gandalf5000]

Originally Posted by Atrocis

Anyway, I got a follow-up question on the "play ladder games and analyze your game to find your weaknesses and work on them step for step" - approach. While playing ladder games, should i be playing an matchup apropriate build order from the beginning or start out with some standard build like 2-rax expand (even thou its rather outdated) for every matchup and diverse it after the first steps have been made while improving on mechanics or should i start by learning the current matchups with there bos and improve mechanics on those bos?

When I looked into this I decided to stick with one (simple) BO / style for each matchup. It helps if there's videos / guides walking you through it so you don't have to think about responses for certain situations - they're already mapped out for you. It means you can spend more time focusing on improving mechanics. Back last year I went through MrBitter's 12 Weeks with the Pros videos for each of my matchups as zerg, they're a bit dated now though

[Tonsh]

Originally Posted by Atrocis

Thanks for the great feedback guys, you are definitly helping me a lot.
I'm currently not able to play as much sc2 as i'd like to (exam week + project presentation and documentation deadline coming up), but all the input you guys gave me helped me to get a better idea what i should be doing over the next weeks, when the major part of my work is done.

Anyway, I got a follow-up question on the "play ladder games and analyze your game to find your weaknesses and work on them step for step" - approach. While playing ladder games, should i be playing an matchup apropriate build order from the beginning or start out with some standard build like 2-rax expand (even thou its rather outdated) for every matchup and diverse it after the first steps have been made while improving on mechanics or should i start by learning the current matchups with there bos and improve mechanics on those bos?

Well as you said in your first post, I'd work on you mechanics first if you feel they are really bad before you think about build orders. If your mechanics aren't good then you won't be able to execute a build order as intended.

[gandalf5000]

Originally Posted by Tonsh

If your mechanics aren't good then you won't be able to execute a build order as intended.

I also remember Day[9] talking about this in one of his newbie tuesdays or something, following a build order solely by numbers isn't a good idea until you have the same level macro, as you'll be slightly out of time for things like making buildings, scv production, trying to actually remember the build, etc. So it's better to concentrate on the order of things and relative timings of buildings to each other.

[SLCN.Kez]

Get a buddy (who is hopefully better than you) to drop the **** out of u or something and you have to deal iwht it whilst keeping up (i think ur toss?) probe + pyon production etc, then see how well u do each game. Helped me a lot when i was trying to deal with drops when i was figuring out infestor ling style, i noticed when i had to think about it i wasnt macroing but now its trained soon as i seee a drop or any pressure really first thing i do is go check my hatches/larvae.
In saying that tho macro is really about forcing a habit to always be making probes and pylons, so playing a lot of ladder games where all you are trying to accomplish is making as many probs n pylons as possible will only help you, and gives you the game sense of what might be going on as well.
Do note however you will probably lose a lot of games initially to dumb shit since youre focusing on macro, but very quickly youll probably jump in leagues because you are now out macroing your opponent

*edit* YES- You can pretty much get to high diamond/masters perfecting 1 build for each matchup. Then once you can perfectly execute it try out some other builds, if you try to learn to much to soon with to bad mechanics everything will feel like youre doing it wrong and will have a gross feeling. Need to take each problem methodically and 1 by 1, other wise u will never improve