[Aean(:]

Okay, the reason I am posting here instead of the replay feedback thread is because I do not want 'feedback' on my overall gameplay, but instead on how to defend the 3 Gate Stargate more directly.

I am a mid-high masters Terran and have gone up against the 3GS about .. 9 times. And I've won 0. Its so frustrating knowing that no matter what I do, I end up losing.

I usually open with the reacter expand in TvP (cutting gas at 50). And then building 2 more rax (3 total) and resuming gas production to get marauders out. Now, if I scout he doesn't have an expansion going up, ill assume his going to do some sought of all in. I get an engineering bay at around 6-7minutes for DT's. Now I have bunkers in front of my natural, but his voids will constantly poke my main - forcing me to bring my marines there. Then all of a sudden a ground force comes into my natural. I don't know how to defend this.. Am I meant to be getting turrets or no? More bunkers? Sit on 1 base? (The problem of voids poking mineral lines and other stuff still exist, though less walk distance).

In the replay pack below (3 replays), I used 3 different builds to try defend the 3 Gate Stargate but failed all times.
Ive done:
- Reacter expand
- Barracks no gas expand
- Reacter expand into 1/1/1 (Quick viking to help fend off voids harassing. Not really an option for me, as i want to play heavy bio early game, but I was seeing if I could defend it).

Nothing works at the moment for me. I don't see other terrans complaining about the 3GS, maybe its just me. But if you could help I would appreciate it a lot

Of course I have a thousand other problems, but ill tackle one at a time.

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=459

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Aean(:

Okay, the reason I am posting here instead of the replay feedback thread is because I do not want 'feedback' on my overall gameplay, but instead on how to defend the 3 Gate Stargate more directly.

Between the lines, you want a GM point a view and that's evidently what this site is made for, having top player insight.

So I will make some remarks to participate and because it pleases me to watch and analyze replays but I really ask a GM to comment itself. A gold point of view, whatever methodical it is, is not what Aean asks.

By the way, Paroxism want the same in the TGM Replay thread, hint, hint.

Originally Posted by Aean(:

Nothing works at the moment for me. I don't see other terrans complaining about the 3GS, maybe its just me. But if you could help I would appreciate it a lot

Other s have huge problems with it. I saw Rossi loose vs Soulman with this, Cosmos looses a lot when attacked by this and other s I see can have a hard time against it.

I've read a defense theory on TL forum. They say that you have to split your army. Send a small (but not too small) group of marines to the rear and prepare the ground assault that is coming on the front.

Then:

• Generally I don't think putting depot on the edge of your base is optimal in the beginning of the game as long as Voids are possible. You need to patrol this zone with a marine instead (that's what you did in the last game commented).
• You must watch very carefully for any pylon that would let warping units in your base.
  • If there is one : Destroy it is highest priority as is harder to defend ground units there and at the front ;
  • If not : The main attack will be at the front and you know there will be one because you see Stargate / Void Rays. Make Marauders and more bunker at front and prepare the scvs to repair.
• That's basically a micro war. You don't want to loose scvs nor marines during your defense and you want to keep macroing and having a eye on the front and watch for pylons around your base. If he warps units in your base, you must kite zealots too. That's very hard but it's not that easy for Toss either if you micro well.

Originally Posted by Aean(:

- Barracks no gas expand

I think you made some mistakes regarding the theory above:

• Giving away a free depot
• Letting the first Void Ray kill 5 SCVs before sending them away.
• Not making 2 other bunkers at the entrance instead of the turrets
• Macro slipped at 8:58, you had 900 minerals in bank 22 seconds before his push (9m20). You should have made more bunkers, a Fact and/or another barrack before. You were 10 army food behind at the beginning of the push.

Not making Marauders was probably a good idea since there were not many stalkers but sentries, zealots and 3 Voids.

Originally Posted by Aean(:

- Reacter expand

I don't know why you lost, he just hit at the worst moment for you. What I could say:

• Make another Bunker when you see All In coming and you saw it very soon;
• You were unlucky when you tried to scout his proxy stargate.
• I'm not too fond of your reactor marine stop-gas build. I have the feeling you have slightly less units that way than other FE expand builds but I could be mistaken.

Originally Posted by Aean(:

- Reacter expand into 1/1/1 (Quick viking to help fend off voids harassing. Not really an option for me, as i want to play heavy bio early game, but I was seeing if I could defend it).

You did all well except sending all your marines to chase the Void Rays. The Voids Rays are here to split your forces. Just send the minimum needed to hold them.

I think you should have searched siege instead of getting a lab on the starport and a Raven. Once you have 2 bunkers and one or 2 sieged tanks, things are more easier to defend at the front.

Originally Posted by Aean(:

I am a mid-high masters Terran and have gone up against the 3GS about .. 9 times. And I've won 0. Its so frustrating knowing that no matter what I do, I end up losing.
I usually open with the reacter expand in TvP (cutting gas at 50). And then building 2 more rax (3 total) and resuming gas production to get marauders out. Now, if I scout he doesn't have an expansion going up, ill assume his going to do some sought of all in. I get an engineering bay at around 6-7minutes for DT's. Now I have bunkers in front of my natural, but his voids will constantly poke my main - forcing me to bring my marines there. Then all of a sudden a ground force comes into my natural. I don't know how to defend this.. Am I meant to be getting turrets or no? More bunkers? Sit on 1 base? (The problem of voids poking mineral lines and other stuff still exist, though less walk distance).

I don't think turrets are the priority. You will die because of the attack at your door or units warping in your base. That must be your main priority. Defending the 3 gates. So static defenses at your natural are priority. Bunkers and repairing scvs / sieged tanks if you have the time.

Overall defending that push with a 2 rax on one base is already hard, defending it with a FE is even harder. You will have to micro and multi-task like a boss. Take the positive from it : You will definitly train to micro that way.

Quick Comments

Aean(::

thank you. it has shed some light on how i should be doing things different, :)

[fur]

I'm around a similar rank to you, and I don't play your build so take my response with grain of salt.

The thing I find with 3gVoids is that it's near impossible to stop if you don't scout it, but fairly easy if you do. The thing to look for is fast double gas, which usually means sentry expo (you can scout for this later) DT's or Voids. You need to get a scout to his expansion at the 6 minute mark, if no expo then something is up.

If you've scouted this, I don't see why would be in a hurry to land your expo. Holding whatever tricky shit he is upto is your #1 priority, then you're massively ahead.

With Voids you want to be actively scouting for pylons near your base, as ideally they'll be pushing you from the side not your choke. When in doubt, bunker up. One at your ramp is obvious, but why not at the side as well? You'll have shitloads of cash because of the extra mules and can double your scv production. In the mean time you should be moving towards stim marines which will own that shit.

So in short, what's the hurry to get that expo on the ground if you know he is (almost) all inning. You stop that void push you've got him.

[Giftbox]

Me too im having hard time defending this and what to do like in shatter temples i got bunkers in my ramp but then he warped in in my main base with zealots and its very hard to defend

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by Giftbox

Me too im having hard time defending this and what to do like in shatter temples i got bunkers in my ramp but then he warped in in my main base with zealots and its very hard to defend

Keep a marine patrolling at the edges of your cliffs to make sure no proxy pylon goes up.

[DtorR]

I too have trouble with 3g void ray. It is crucial to read and scout protoss at certain times.

When you first scout at protoss, depending whether it be 3 or 4 mins, you can count how many pylons are in his base, 2 gas and chronoboost energy. If you don't see 3 pylons in his base then suspect proxy pylon with hidden tech if 2 gas. Energy on the nexus can also mean he is saving for void ray however stargate play is still possible with low energy however in most cases it is a DT rush/blink stalker play.

On most of the maps check the most likely places where you would hide your stargate and check along all edges of all cliffs with your scv or marine. Also there is nothing wrong with scanning his base at the 6 min mark

Personally I don't use your type of builds shown on the replays however I think the problem is crisis management. Against void ray all in play, you can temporarily forget your game plan and just make bunkers and lift your natural back into your main and save your scvs. Building bunkers at strange parts of your base can actually help and produce weird comebacks.

[Giftbox]

What to do when they already warp in in ur base? amd do i get fast vikings cause my vikings just get picked by stalkers

Quick Comments

Aean(::

Think of it as - if they warp in, they win. If you deny it, you win.

[Snx`Azz]

simple answer is to pull all your scvs and stutter step micro all your marines and u will overcome the attack if you have been correctly macroing and not gotten supply stuck.

because your on 2 base your 2 orbitaal mules = an entire protoss mineral line, so lose as many scvs as you need to win the engagement, obviously not all of them though.

[PiG]

Any 1 base all-in its best to just hold in your main with bunkers ontop of your ramp and as everyone above said, patrol marines so they don't get a pylon up to warp into your main.

Many pro korean players will not only bunker their front but the moment they scout VR they will bunker any possible warpin locations aswell and split their army to both locations.

As Azz said use scvs and you should be alright

Quick Comments

Aean(::