[Delraich]

Hi, I am a new player and was hoping for a little advice please. My current cunning plan (which isn't really working atm), is to practice over and over on the same map on custom games. I have read a bit around Xel Naga Caverns, and it seems like a cool map to learn some key strategy's (e.g. proxy pylon behind the trees or proxy building by that expansion behind the rocks). After playing quite a few times, I have noticed alot of zerg playing this map against me (I'm trying to learn protoss). Another thing i remember from some video i watched along the way is that apparently void ray and collosus is a good strategy against zerg. So now i have all these different things going on in my head (bearing in mind i am a noob and my multitasking is not very good!). I am also struggling with expanding for some reason, and i am not sure when to time this.

So anyway... I am kinda OK right in the very beginning (I think!): select probes send them to minerals (I double click them atm, but i read about control F1 somewhere, but this is too much for my brain atm), selct nexus and press e, right click onto the minerals from nexus to make the pathway, and control 4 the nexus. I then make my 2 more probes and i put one of the probes on control 3 (the building one). I then send the probe to build my first pylon by the ramp with a cool circle that just touches the ramp and sides, and then send it back to mine. I build 3 more probes in the meantime (this timing isnt great for me by the way, i only get through 2 when the pylon is already warping in - am i too slow?). I bring it back a bit later for the gate which i place with the corner facing the near side of the ramp so the cybernetics core can fit nicely. I now build the assimilator right after the gate and then another pylon.

By now there is a drone in my base and it starts attacking my probe or just being annoying. As a noob this is really distracting!! I just want to put down my cybernetics core and get that zealot standing in the gap. Is there a way to deal with this easily? I was thinking today maybe i should hotkey even more probes to attack the drone because once i start pullling probes off the mineral line and clicking all over the place and then i need to put them back on the mineral line, i usually forget something (e.g late on my building of a zealot, or forget to press hold on my zealot, or forget to press warp gate research, or forget about the second gas or something). Oh, i have also started learning to scout, so after warping in the gate by the ramp i right click on the opponents base (i know where it is because there is only one location).

So moving along... Let's say i get this far and i now finally get the core down and the zealot parked there and my probes are back in action blah blah. I am still faffing at this point. I really like robo for some reason (i love the observer, and i also want to try to get collosus). But.. i also want void rays too! Now, I am also thinking that i need to expand because these are expensive units. I also have read that I can only afford 4 production buildings at my base (e.g. 3 gate robo or 4 gate). So i normally forget about the stargate for now because its all too hard, and besides there are now 4 zerglings killing my zealot. So i usually end up with a 3 gate robo after a little while, whilst trying to build some stalkers to kill these zerglings.

Now the next thing that is bugging me... everytime i want to send dudes out my base (e.g. probe or whatever, i need to move the bloody zealot out the way AND remember to put him back and on hold again once im done). Is this right? should i still be doing this at this stage of the game? I am also still wanting to build a cool proxy pylon by the trees but... arrg. How do i successfully build this expansion? How many defending/ offensive units should i have by now? Should collosus be around by now? Do i wait for the extended thermal lance ray upgrade or try and get it ASAP?

If i expand, should i be attacking too? or is it one or the other?

If some kind (and bored) person out there can make a replay video (eg. find a friend to play PvZ on Xel Naga) and act out a scene of what i should do, that would be truely awesome. Otherwise just explaining will be appreciated as well.

[kpb]

4 zerglings would never kill a hold position zealot for one. So don't worry about that. and moving the zealot, every protoss does that. but if you want to get a probe out to do some scouting you can click on a mineral patch outside of your base and the probe will walk through the zealot like a ghost. Thats a cool trick if you dont want to move him and move him back. The strategy I think you should give a go is a 3 gate expand. build 3 gateways and get warp gate technology at your cybernetics core. and then constantly be making sentries/zealots to save a bit of minerals and then expand to your natural moving all your units out. Then while ure expanding you can add a robo bay and start going for collossi when you get more gas income.As for the collossi itself. there are 2 strats that zerg does. In one of them, collossi are terrible and for the other collossi is excellent. Muta/ling (when the make mutalisks and zerglings) will kill collossi no doubt and they will not get as many kills as you would like. Roach/Hydra. collossi do excellent as long as you have sentries for guardian shields and forcefileds to cut the army in half and let thermal lance do its job. scouting is key in this match up (or every match up). get an observer ASAP. and send it to his base. scout his army and his base to see what units hes making. at your level gateway units will be able to defend his pushes before your response kicks in. assuming your making units constantly. now IF you defend his attack. take a third base. If ure obs saw a spire, make a twilight council and eventually research blink from it and get a templar archives so you can get high temps to storm the mutas. If you scout a roach warren. get collossi. fast. hope this helped you. sincerely, kpb

[Delraich]

Thanks for the advice, it was really helpful. As luck would have it, all the games i played to try this out were all against terran, but i decided to try this anyway to see if i could do it. The one game went much better and I expanded to the natural successfully, but I ended up with a new challenge of dealing with the later part of the game that I dont normally survive to, but its OK, I can worry about this next. The next few attempts were not that good, but that was because i am not used to dealing with medivac drops, and my other opponent was really good. My fighting is actually pretty bad too - how do you do the attack move thing? Anyway, I'll keep practising and hopefully one day this will all feel alot more natural/ fluid.

I love the tip on how to get the probe to walk through the zealot!

[kpb]

To attack move you press 'A' on the keyboard and then left click where you want to move them and if they come acroos an enemy unit theyll attack it. In your league attack moving is good and i have trouble sometimes with medivac drops too xD so dont worry bout that. AND. nw bout the little trick xD im glad i helped

[NvPinder]

Chuck me a pm and we can organize to go over one of your reps for half an hour and just discuss what your doing right/wrong and where you need improvement, etc. I'm back in aus Tuesday night and available Wednesday.

[kpb]

JPMoney stole my idea xD

[Delraich]

Thanks so much - I can't believe how helpful people are on this server. I played 2 more games today, and man... I am so embarressed to show anyone my replays...aarg. I made like 10 guys (4 zealot and 6 sentry), sent them toward the terran base and then halfway down i saw this huge group of M&M's (on the replay i saw that he had 6 marines and 6 mauraders) going the other way. I was like eeek, so i chased them. They got so owned with that running away and stop shoot thing - i lost all of mine and i dont think he lost a unit. So i kinda had to start rebuilding units and i eventually expanded. By this time (about 22 minutes into the game or so) he was sending in friggen SCV's to their death. When i saw that, i was like, man i suck... It has gotten so bad that he is bored and maxing his army for fun. When i asked him in chat, he was like... i have 6 bases atm. Bah. Anyway, i was soo toast it was not funny.

So I decided to try once more. It was Zerg again. Anyway, i got totally sidetracked with the harrass, he stood where i wanted to build my gate and after fiddling around i ended up placing it wrong. Then i pulled 2 more probes to chase it away and then i finally got the core down. And then, I didn't know a drone can walk through your zealot too - the little bugger - must have used the same mineral line trick! By now my mind was totally out of it and i just forgot what to do. All i could remember from day 9 is build drones, build pylons! (4 - e, pylon, 4 - e, pylon). And then a bunch of roaches came and killed me and i got depressed! Bah again.

I think they need to make a super low catagory for me - maybe with an age cap of like 4 or something!

[Satu]

I think you should think less about the fact of getting owned and more about what you can learn from being owned. If you lose 100 games in a row, thats 100 games i which you can look to for ways to fix up your gameplay. Dont think of losses so negatively, just keep playing as consistently as possible.

Also, if you watch replays or commentaries at all, watch low level ones more than higher level ones. You will learn how to spot mistakes at your level easier through doing that (Some allowing you to win games), rather than some smaller mistakes in high level play.

[Aean(:]

Ok look here yo, I never help people so consider yourself lucky. From reading what you have posted, it seems you are too caught up with things that are too advanced for you. GO PLAY LADDER. Why are you playing custom where you could potentially be playing against players way above you? Your a new player, you need to learn the basic mechanics. Proper build orders, building probes, building army. With a proper build order you can do both of these efficiently. Since I don't know your rank, I'll be assuming a lot. After you can perform simple things, you can move onto scouting, learning the counter units, reacting, etc. Then in later stages you can focus on understanding the matchups, how do you play PvZ effectively? You shouldn't treat every race the same, maybe for Zerg you need to play more harrassive so they don't power drone and get ahead of you, etc. Stay at your current level, the biggest thing that ive noticed is that starcraft has a deep learning curve. It takes a while to get started but after that you will be learning like crazy. Now after reading this go play ladder you homo

[Delraich]

Well, after that recent advice, I decided to take the plunge and try out for a ranking. One more game to go, but its definately gonna be bronze. I think i will follow the advice and play the ladder for a bit where everything is just that bit more calmer and, like u said, learn the basics in increments.

And I even got drone rushed on my second game (at first im thinking, that is alot of scouts, and then the penny drops)! The chap was chatting during the final stages of the game and said that apparently drones are the stongest of the workers and on short maps they should win - and he did!

[NvPinder]

Offer still stands if you wanna jump on teamspeak for half an hour and get some 1 on 1 coaching from someone who knows what they're talking about, chuck me a pm if you're interested, im back in aus in like 30 hours! (in denver airport atm, thank god for burning time on pc cafes)

[Hybrid]

You should of played the practice matches before anything, get a feel of what units do what. i found there was a huge difference between the top of bronze to a rank 20 bronze. I would be taking JP Money's offer, it will feel embarresing but it will put you onto the right path to getting better. Without seeing replays it is hard to comment about your play, but i can bet that you haven't made enough probes to saturate your base as a start and if this isn't done things are just down hill from here.

I would suggest watching replays of other people on youtube and on this site, and take note of what "food/supply/psi" they build something and the timings at which they do it. This will give you an idea when you compare it to how you are playing.

When i first started playing it amazed me how they turned up with 10-15 units and i had 3-4...lol this has helped me improve my game HEAPS.

But if you want some help with improving, look at the "find a partner thread" to, having somebody to go over strat and build orders etc can definately help.

[Delraich]

Thanks for that advice Hybrid, and yes, I am definately gonna take up JPMoneys offer. I installed Teamspeak today and then I just need to find out how to show him my replays. I do watch youtube a fair bit (Blizshouter/ Crota and HDstarcraft's channel are the main ones. I have seen a couple of Day9, but those casts are often 1hour plus, so I haven't watched as many of them).

I have to admit that I am still not good (understatement of the century) at looking at the supply in terms of timings and I tend to build the first few things in a pre learned pattern (which is why after a little while, i forget what to do next) - so, for example, I may learn the following based on my mineral supply: 3 probes, pylon, 3 probes, chronoboost, gate, assimilator, pylon, cybernetics core as my standard. I then, depending on my levels of confusion start doing things randomly after this (e.g. sometimes i make a zealot or gate or another assimilator or robo). Inbetween, i randomly press e so that i can get to about 20-24 probes by the time i get to the end of the core/ next building stage of things.

[kpb]

well watch day9 FOR SURE! itll help ure game sooo much, and add me too and ill give ya a coup[le of games and a bit of advice

[MrMuggles]

More specifically, watch this Day[9] Daily #184 - Newbie Tuesday #1 - http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4152891/

If you're wondering how your opponent always has heaps more stuff than you, this might answer that question and show you how to keep up. It's also available on YouTube if you search for the episode number.