[sRFullstop]

This topic was frequently debated a while back. The conclusion then was to not drone scout ZvZ in favor of a stronger economy. However, what if the opponent cheeses? Without scouting a 6 pool or a 9pool spine rush, it is extremely difficult to defend with a standard opening of 14g/14p. By drone scouting, it allows one to react by dropping an early pool. Not drone scouting may lead to dying from cheese.

I personally always drone scout, whether it's a large or small map. What do you guys think?

[TAEdgE]

It depends on your build. A lot of builds you will do blindly without drone scouting (be pretty into the build) before you scout anything, but drone scouting helps a lot like this:

Hatch First - if you 14~ drone scout, you will look to see if he expanded himself (speed first), speedling expand/no drones in gas (less roach/bane/crawler deterrence and eventually a faster speed), or baneling (roach/bane/crawler+queen)

if you 9 drone scout (and you dont scout him last) you can choose to do your build based off of it (if he 10 or 6 pools, throw down a pool (and or gas, whatevers comfortable)). It is a fairly significant loss for me to 9 drone scout, and i prefer to go into a game with a build in mind (i've beaten 10 pool with hatch first, so it's possible. A 14~ drone scout gives you time to mentally prepare and plan.)

14/14 don't drone scout. Your lings will be out in time to defend 10 pool, drones are used to defend 6 pool so scouting it won't change the reaction, and your lings will scout if he:

A - Expanded first
B - Speedling expanded
C - No expand (meaning bane, roach, or a retarded 1 base build)

the drone will lose you some money which you do not need to lose because playing 'blindly' with a 14/14 works fine, and the extra drone/mining will ofcourse help defend the early lings and or crawler

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	Bravo!
	TABjornbrandr:

[sRFullstop]

Originally Posted by EdgE

It depends on your build. A lot of builds you will do blindly without drone scouting (be pretty into the build) before you scout anything, but drone scouting helps a lot like this:

Hatch First - if you 14~ drone scout, you will look to see if he expanded himself (speed first), speedling expand/no drones in gas (less roach/bane/crawler deterrence and eventually a faster speed), or baneling (roach/bane/crawler+queen)

if you 9 drone scout (and you dont scout him last) you can choose to do your build based off of it (if he 10 or 6 pools, throw down a pool (and or gas, whatevers comfortable)). It is a fairly significant loss for me to 9 drone scout, and i prefer to go into a game with a build in mind (i've beaten 10 pool with hatch first, so it's possible. A 14~ drone scout gives you time to mentally prepare and plan.)

14/14 don't drone scout. Your lings will be out in time to defend 10 pool, drones are used to defend 6 pool so scouting it won't change the reaction, and your lings will scout if he:

A - Expanded first
B - Speedling expanded
C - No expand (meaning bane, roach, or a retarded 1 base build)

the drone will lose you some money which you do not need to lose because playing 'blindly' with a 14/14 works fine, and the extra drone/mining will ofcourse help defend the early lings and or crawler

Wow this is good advice! Thanks.

One question, what do the things in the brackets mean? In the paragraph "If you 14~ drone scout, you will look to see if he expanded himself (speed first)..."

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Fullstop

Wow this is good advice! Thanks.

One question, what do the things in the brackets mean? In the paragraph "If you 14~ drone scout, you will look to see if he expanded himself (speed first)..."

Brackets = your preferred response to what you scout. Sorry for not clarifying mate!

[oo0zula0oo]

I say not to because even if there is cheese as long as you have around 14 drones or 16 drones when the cheese arrives all you have to do is dance with the other player until your lings come out and/or build a spine near your mineral line to force the other player to attack into you drones~
I love it when they cheese because in the end I know I'll be so far ahead I can do whatever I want and still win especially when they are cocky and GG before even winning~

[Meatex]

Edge has some good advice
Don't scout unless you have a reason to. Perhaps you want to be safe when doing a risky build (hatch first) or you expect something weird from the opponent.

In higher levels you might want to see specifics (gas timings etc) to tailor a build to what he's doing

[Zealo]

i prefer to 10 pool scout rather than drone scout

[HowAreYa]

When I see a drone scout, I get scared and think hes 8 pool/spineing me. Then usually 14/14 (or 13 pool etc if I feel like having an easier time) instead of hatch first.

I dont drone scout anymore, but when I did and scouted 14/14 I 15/15 or hatch firsted. So I dont feel drone scouting is that bad and can actually give you an advantage on certain maps. But don't scout unless your going to react to something you see.

[TcaTX]

This is my opinion. When I scout at 10 drones what I'm finding is that generally in most games by the time my drone finally gets to his base on a 4 player map, he already has his 6~10 pool down, so If I've been greedy its generally too late, or my overlord gets there before the drone anyway so the drone scout was a waste. So I would have been better to just do my build (hatch first, 14g 14p) and then lings to scout with guys off gas then react to what I see. If I scout him early though, I do find the early scouting can help as it can indicate if he is going ling bane, roach opener, speedling expo etc etc and allow me to adjust my build to a roach/bling/speedling opener. Personal preference I suppose.

[iVnStinger]

Generally I prefer to drone scout because I do 15 hatch every game that isn't a cheese game from me. The reason being that if they hit you with a 6 pool of guard, that can be a hassle to defend, or at least for a nub like me. Even when I cheese I drone scout so I know where he is and it's easier.

[SLCN.Kez]

i drone scout just about every game unless we spawn close by air shattered or something. I like to see when his drones get off gas/went into gas, as this will tell me generally whats coming and i can react better. But pretty much u dont need to scout if ur going 14g 14p.

[EveTigey]

I always drone scout unless they spawn close by air on maps such as meta. I like to drone scout because majorty of the time i 15 hatch and i need to know if they are building an early pool or not. But if i 14/14 i don't drone scout as you can hold anything with 14/14. But it is personal preference if you dont mind losing a few games to an early pool then dont drone scout for an early advantage.

[sRFullstop]

How about against a 9pool spine rush? Open with 9 pool, and before the pool finishes send a drone to the base so once the pool finishes you can put down a spine in opponent's base out of creep vision range, then reinforce with lings non stop. I asked others and they said that you must scout and put down an early pool yourself as 14/14 can't defend?

[Monk]

I never drone scout in ZvZ, even if I go hatch first. If I get early pooled then well played, if you don't then my risk paid off. Your lings and overlords can see everything, even if they're not in your opponents base. See lings before your pool is done when you went 14/14? He early pooled. See nothing come out of your opponent(if your overlords passed by or something) when you have lings half way across the map? Hatch first or roach rush. ZvZ is just a game of knowledge of timings and styles. You will get all your information off of the way he spends his larvae.