[EveVendetta]

Hi guys, I came across this thread on team liquid which gave a very good analysis of the macro abilities of different leagues.

I think the measuring of your Spending Quotient would be a very good tool in seeing what your standard is, and it can be used as well as a gauge for whether you are improving over the weeks. E.g. you can measure it once a month.

It's a long read but I think everyone will find it very interesting, so do check it out!

I'm a GM but my SQ is only 71.2, so I guess my macro is not really up to standard. Feel free to share your SQs!


The link can be found below!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=266019

[crAzerk]

Man, the things some people do... I probably take as much time working on a school essay assignment as he took writing that. I wish there were Starcraft modules!
Great article btw

EDIT: Wow, just finished the article, all the math and stuff has me even more impressed. I wish I could do this for a living lol =X

[Welshy]

man if only i had this guys skills in writing lol was a good read non the less thanks for the link bro

[Uglymutt]

Good read. I'm impressed that all leagues seem to have a logarithmic band associated with that league.

[syfPhoenix]

haha yes i used his formula's to work out my macro is in the masters league yet i still cant win in masters

[Next_rim]

My macro is in masters range, but I'm still stuck in diamond.

[TragicHero]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

My macro is in masters range, but I'm still stuck in diamond.

I'm pretty sure most of us diamonds have a macro range of master league players. Frankly I don't see the difference between most master league and diamond league players, up till they're high masters (within GM MMR). So we should just win our matches and get promoted

[NDG.Stitch]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

My macro is in masters range, but I'm still stuck in diamond.

Macro is a big part in each game, but then along with Macro there is also reflexes and game sense. Just because you have a 200/200 pop army when your opponent has 150/200 doesn't mean you would win if you run all your units into tanks.
There are lots of players in Masters that have absolutely crazy macro but can't even deal with a well executed 2 rax or 4 gate!

[Next_rim]

Frankly I don't see the difference between most master league and diamond league players

In macro, there is little. execution and timings - that's what matters. Also, awareness and multitasking.

[TragicHero]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

In macro, there is little. execution and timings - that's what matters. Also, awareness and multitasking.

Well, we ARE talking about macro right now aren't we


On topic:
Mine is around 60-80 over several games, and averaged out at 70.9. Need to get better at spending those minerals!

[RamboLicious]

Other than looking at the game graph right after finished it, is there a replay analyzer that can extract
1) Average Unspent Resources, and
2) Average Income?

Tried several one but won't help

[johnnyli]

Wow that's a great write up. I really did notice that my worker macro was very sub par up until platinum.

[RamboLicious]

Some info gathered from my last 6 games:


Average SQ: ~ 98

However, I still suck cause my micro is so bad T_T

[syfChadMann]

yeah.. that thread is a load.. doesn't take into account that you DON'T make enough workers and not enough income.. it just balances your unspent verses your income.. if you have a really low income then it is easy to spend thus you get a good 'SQ'
its missing a third element of calculation which is so variable.

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by ChadMann

yeah.. that thread is a load.. doesn't take into account that you DON'T make enough workers and not enough income.. it just balances your unspent verses your income.. if you have a really low income then it is easy to spend thus you get a good 'SQ'
its missing a third element of calculation which is so variable.

Nah, I don't agree with you on this, bro.
SQ is calculated in a way that it's larger the more income you have, for example,

At #3, my AUS = 300 and my AI = 1035, my SQ is 90
but at #6, my AUS is tripled @ 929, while my AI is only doubled @ 2090, I still have a bigger SQ which is 101

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

Nah, I don't agree with you on this, bro.
SQ is calculated in a way that it's larger the more income you have, for example,

At #3, my AUS = 300 and my AI = 1035, my SQ is 90
but at #6, my AUS is tripled @ 929, while my AI is only doubled @ 2090, I still have a bigger SQ which is 101

The goal of this calculator is to get a low number or a high number?

I dunno I ran it on a few 1v1 games I had and there was very different levels of macro being employed. The player that won out macro'd and stomped the other, however had more workers and more avg unspent... their SQ scores were similar.

The sum doesn't seem like it considers enough variables to be accurate.. like time and workers... but then you got to factor in harrasment causing lower worker counts at varied points in time. As for example, the first game with 501 unspent and 1731 avg income meals totally different things if the game length was 17 mins... or 37 mins. and will cause a significant difference to the macro in game.

That being said, I don't feel that I know enough about the formula to really make an assessment.. but i'll probably look into it soon..

[RamboLicious]

Originally Posted by ChadMann

The goal of this calculator is to get a low number or a high number?

I dunno I ran it on a few 1v1 games I had and there was very different levels of macro being employed. The player that won out macro'd and stomped the other, however had more workers and more avg unspent... their SQ scores were similar.

The sum doesn't seem like it considers enough variables to be accurate.. like time and workers... but then you got to factor in harrasment causing lower worker counts at varied points in time. As for example, the first game with 501 unspent and 1731 avg income meals totally different things if the game length was 17 mins... or 37 mins. and will cause a significant difference to the macro in game.

That being said, I don't feel that I know enough about the formula to really make an assessment.. but i'll probably look into it soon..

The goal of this calculator is just for calculating your SQ. Your goal to "macro like a pro" can be translated as having a high SQ.

The length of your game wouldn't really matter, as long as it's "long enough" and it's a normal game (I wouldn't call it normal if you have 10k mineral and 200/200 food for like 5 minutes - if you know what I mean). What really matter is your AI (Average Income) and your AUR (Average Unspent Resource)

As the example I gave above, the more bases you have, the more AI and the harder it is to maintain a lower AUR.
Hence, while in the 2nd game, my AI is only twice as much, and my AUR is tripled, I still have a better - higher SQ.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

The goal of this calculator is just for calculating your SQ. Your goal to "macro like a pro" can be translated as having a high SQ.

The length of your game wouldn't really matter, as long as it's "long enough" and it's a normal game (I wouldn't call it normal if you have 10k mineral and 200/200 food for like 5 minutes - if you know what I mean). What really matter is your AI (Average Income) and your AUR (Average Unspent Resource)

As the example I gave above, the more bases you have, the more AI and the harder it is to maintain a lower AUR.
Hence, while in the 2nd game, my AI is only twice as much, and my AUR is tripled, I still have a better - higher SQ.

Refer to my previous post... but can i also add..
This also doesn't consider situations where you get a 200/200 army vs another 200/200 army.. obviously you don't want to just run in cause you need to keep macroing.. so it's a good idea to sack units... no.
you might sit on 200 looking for the right position or to catch your opponent out of position before you engage... This could cause you avg unspent to sky rocket... tho of course its a good idea to build more unit producing facilities so you can macro off the back of the big 200 vs 200 engagement.. which is going to spend some money..

anyway, this SQ calculator is an interesting concept and a good benchmarking tool.. but I think it has alot of flaws and lacks to consider some variables.. which SC2 is filled with...
Just my opinion.

[Next_rim]

As for example, the first game with 501 unspent and 1731 avg income meals totally different things if the game length was 17 mins... or 37 mins. and will cause a significant difference to the macro in game.

If it's averaged, it already is scaled for time. And if you look at average income, it already has worker # over time factored into it. Workers killed on harass = less income at some point in time = lower average.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

If it's averaged, it already is scaled for time. And if you look at average income, it already has worker # over time factored into it. Workers killed on harass = less income at some point in time = lower average.

yes but as your income is an exponential growth scale your average income should increase as time goes on.. as you mine more at an increasing rate..

So if you avg income is 1000 minerals at 10 mins (for example, lets presume this value is really good)
you can also have a 1000 avg income at 25 mins.. which in this example would be bad and might present missed peaks of the exponential line... if you also had the same upsent reasources your SQ would be the same. and I know... 1000 at 10 mins = 10,000 and @ 25 mins = 25,000 which seems good.. but in ten mins.. that could be the best you can get.. but in 25, you could get better?...

basically it doesn't consider potential income in the game length... say, it is possible to have 2000 avg income at 25 mins? you see what i mean...

Its about the player cutting worker production and plateauing their economy at a particular income per minute. when does that happen, and how well do they spend that income.. is the real test of macro ability.

I hope I'm making sense.. :S