[nard]

Hi all.

I have recently (very recently) PMed Nirvana with a suggestion of mine.
He then told me I should start a thread about this so he can hear more feedback from the community regarding my idea.
So without further ado, I shall begin presenting my idea.


NOTE: This is not a competition for you to sign up, rather its a thread looking for feedback and more ideas to make it feasible and to freshen up the CO.

Community Open

As of today 6th July 2011, the community has seen 25 completed Community Opens thus far. While I do not deny the community open has unearthed some gems, it has also at the same time buried the hopes of some players wanting to play more in a competition but yet do not have the requisite quality to go far in the CO.

Over the 25 weeks (ie. almost 6 months) that the community open has been held, a total of $565 had been given out as prize money.


Regular League

The suggestion mooted to nirvana via PM was this,

to have a round robin league consisting of the top 16-20 players (qualifiers to be taken from previous CO results)

This league will probably have to run over a course of 15-19 weeks (dependent on the number of players) and will thus have a bigger prize pool (also meaning that we could reward top 8 of the players instead of top 2 or just top 1).

With the number of highly capable tournament admins/co-ordinators that sc2sea has, this league could extend down to a division 2, division 3, or even up to division 6.

What does this mean?

The elites will have a place where they play each other round robin style, forcing them to be consistent throughout the 15-19 weeks, playing one league game per week. (think Code S) The bottom players (possibly bottom 2-3) will be relegated/forced to play up-and-down matches to preserve their Div 1 status.

The not so elite (the GMs who do not qualify for Division 1) could fight for the right to compete in Division 1 and subsequently compete for the money and bragging rights.

If there are enough players to sustain this, this system could incorporate even the BSGers who are more often than not just looking for a competitive environment to play in.

Slightly more farfetched ideas

With a longer running league and solid organization, the possibility of finding a corporate sponsor to fund such a league would be slightly bigger.

With corporate sponsorship, eSports will grow locally (in SEA and ANZ) and hopefully become 10% as big as it is in Korea and to a certain extent the US.

With pro casting (and we do have several), players might tune in to the biggest games that SC2SEA has to offer and make it a big event.

Teams can also talent scout in the lower leagues, growing their team and making it stronger for SEACL.


Pros:

1) Players know where they stand skill-wise in the community
2) Players do not lose their first round of the competition and find them out of it
3) Lower league players get to participate in a long running tournament


Cons:

1) Taking part in a league that runs for 15-19 weeks requires a huge commitment from both co-ordinators and players alike.
2) Players in the lower leagues, upon discovering they are no longer in the running to qualify for the up and down matches might forfeit their matches, making the league system a farce in itself.






Please feel free to leave your thoughts.

Your humble .

nard.

[NvPinder]

... Soooo you want them to do another SEA SL?

[deL]

I think for a staple tourney like the CO you're better off keeping a format that is tried and true.

Save that for another event, and remember there are those SEASL and SEACL events that run now and then and are kind of like leagues. The format seems to share some philosophies that the GSL format of SEASL applies.

[Benji]

19 weeks is insane, you'd be looking at a November/December finish if we started this month...

People would lose interest quite quickly, and it would take a pretty decent prize pool to keep players interested for that period of time.

[FSDarkNemesis]

Tip: No Diamonds/Masters/Grandmasters/or Repeat CO winners Allowed, even Platinium is already pushing it. Make it balanced out so at least most if not all the matches is way less one-sided.

Know it does sound somewhat stupid, but I think (More often than not the Diamonds/Veterans are more than seasoned in enough), it's about time to at least get the BSG much more involved and less pressure coming from the Toppers.

[deL]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeep

Tip: No Diamonds/Masters/Grandmasters/or Repeat CO winners Allowed, even Platinium is already pushing it. Make it balanced out so at least most if not all the matches is way less one-sided.

Know it does sound somewhat stupid, but I think (More often than not the Diamonds/Veterans are more than seasoned in enough), it's about time to at least get the BSG much more involved and less pressure coming from the Toppers.

Yeah why aren't more large prizepools dedicated to Silver players who lose convincingly to Diamond offraces in tournaments.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by UltimateDeep

Tip: No Diamonds/Masters/Grandmasters/or Repeat CO winners Allowed, even Platinium is already pushing it. Make it balanced out so at least most if not all the matches is way less one-sided.

Know it does sound somewhat stupid, but I think (More often than not the Diamonds/Veterans are more than seasoned in enough), it's about time to at least get the BSG much more involved and less pressure coming from the Toppers.

... Soooo you want them to do another BSG?

[TAminimat]

Then its not an open is it ultimate. If you think its crazy that you aren't winning the CO just don't join or just play in the CO for fun. There is a BSG for a reason. I think if it was less then 19 weeks it wouldn't be bad lol. But still the CO is always successful. Don't fix what isn't broken really.

[matthras]

UltimateDeep: By definition an 'Open' tournament is a tournament open to everyone, really.

Nard: It's a great idea, but the scale that you're thinking of is way too large. As others already mentioned and you have pointed out yourself, 15-19 weeks is an awful lot of commitment.

I'm trying to think of how to downscale it a little. I would suggest taking a bunch of the winners of combination of tournaments (i.e. BSG + GPD winners as one category and having their own tournament; COs + Masters Cup winners/2nds as the other category and having their own tournament) and then doing a Round Robin into Single/Double Elimination Brackets.

The problem is that if we have too many participants, then the Round Robin stages can become quite bothersome unless you leave it up to the players to organise their own matches.

You've already pointed out the main problem with divisions with up/down stages, and personally I feel it's just best not to have divisions for that reason.

[nirvAnA]

i think the league idea isnt good because of the commitment required from the players. however i do think the CO can be better in terms of leading to a bigger tournament etc and i wanted to hear ideas of any other formats thats why i asked him to post a new thread

one way would be giving points every week to the top 4 players kinda like what ESL does and perhaps having a big tournament at the end. which is basically what i did for SEASL1 with the "Code A" qualifiers basically being COs that the already invited "Code S" players were barred from. Would be interesting as im now in talks with a serious sponsor for SEASL2 and could use some ideas and integrating the CO in that would be fantastic.

[EveJeonSa]

Community Open is supposed to represent the strong players of the community! Losing can enable people to notice the flaws in their plays and get better in order to get more involved in bigger competitions

BSG cups were already good enough a solution for lower league players and it also shows them where they stand

[PiG]

Long running tournaments are VERY hard to organise. However League ideas would be somewhat fun the problem is it sounds alot like ladder. The idea of tournaments is to be different to ladder and reward endurance and psychological strength ASWELL as your talent at the game.

Just 1 game/set a week for each player doesn't get much hype but is something more regular for people to observe how someone does over time and where they stand amongst everyone. Once again this seems similar to ladder though? NASL slumped halfway through the season in viewers because there were just so many games and not that much depended on each one. In a knockout format people have to play as if EVERY game could be their last


That being said the money incentive does add some hype, aswell as casting and a up and down system which is completely transparent. More-so I believe the advantage of this format is it tends to give better games as players are more prepared and focused throughout the season!

That being said I don't believe the CO should ever be removed! It is the sc2sea mainstay tournament! There are many other tournaments such as Masters Cup, Fade open, Ichor Open etc etc all run by different sponsors and organisers and I think creating a league with one of them would be more viable.

On a personal note I doubt I would remember to play my game every week so you'd need a reminder service and all sorts of stuff the organisation would be hard!

[Fourby]

I think the idea of 15-19 is extremely daunting. As mentioned there are already the BSG and GPD for those who want to play within their skill zone.

It was my belief that the Community Open was a weekly even that everyone could participate in for fun, bringing everyone together. Even though there are always going to be extremely 1 sided games sometimes, I always thought it to be a benefit to me to be able to experience a game with a player of a much higher caliber, as this would not happen on the ladder.
To break this apart would seem pointless as there are already events like BSG and Masters Cup to separate these players.

If lower level players are looking for an event to just for a chance to WIN then they simply should not join the CO, instead join the CO because it brings the community from all levels together to have some games for the fun and experience.

As for having a longer term league based competition (like the gsl?), I do think its a great idea, as something this large would draw attraction, but this would depend on how many people can afford this type of commitment.
But I don't think it should be something that should replace the CO.

Fourby ♥CO

Quick Comments

	Eddie:
	nirvAnA:

[Paroxysm]

While this is a good idea, I personally think that the concept of a 15-19 week tournament is rather strenuous. In honesty, the weekly CO gives the community a brilliant way to interact and play off against people from SEA across an extremely broad skill level and is a fun environment to learn and improve.

Realistically, the current Community Open layout is perfect to provide an activity which players from all skill levels can participate in and enjoy. Changing the Community Open, realistically, is not a viable option, however the introduction of a new tournament is.

The concept of a (or slightly longer) Group Stage -> Playoff style tournament which is run over the length of 2 - 3 months could be widely received within the SEA community if it is played right. Of course, it would be necessary to find an appropriate sponsor or set of sponsors for gear/money to attract a large target audience for streaming/casting and more importantly for people who are entering the tournament. If more is at stake you will definitely find that more people will join/watch the tournament.

I recommend that the introduction of such a tournament which goes through several stages of play be introduced on a more regular basis in the sc2sea community as it would introduce a larger audience to the SEA player and fan base and will also provide a possible gateway for SEA players to enter the pro scene (if mOOngLaDe doesnt beat everyone . On the note of the introduction of such a tournament, I would be happy to help host/organise/improve it on top of my current CO duties and I'm sure a plethora of other community members would do the same.

Ultimately, the hardest part would be maintaining the donations required to run a tournament however i think the pros of such a tournament SEVERELY outweigh the cons. It would be extremely beneficial to SEA and SC2SEA if a tournament such as this was introduced. The question is, what will the name be?

If anyone wanted to discuss the concept of such a tournament in further detail and also take part in developing it, PM me or add me on skype (nickmcguffin) as I would be very interested in such an event.

Lets get organising!

Paroxysm