[unpro]

SOooOOo.


Stepping back into 1v1 now after a long run of 2v2s and 3v3s as random, trying to get all 3 races' perspectives and getting my mechanics right, and picking Zerg as my main race. Played 6 games last night, 4 ZvP and 2 ZvT.

Of these, I lost 3 ZvP.

Of these, two I failed to defend a 4 gate and the last I overcommitted defending the 4 gate and I couldn't get back into it and lost a little while later.

I feel like I'm not getting the mix of spines/roaches/drones right, and possibly not microing the lings well enough and getting them chopped down by zealots. Any tips?

I generally play 14 gas, 14 pool, 16 queen then ling speed/expand/roach warren.
I feel like I should straight out 15 hatch.

[ToRDjvillian]

Not sure if this helps but I go 14 hatch then pool and have a spine or 2 at expo plus speedlings to counter the toss 4 gate. Just gotta remember to get the surround with the Lings.

[FvRsolis]

or alternatively, you can go a roach all in. Because no protoss in bronze expects that

[unpro]

Originally Posted by Solis

or alternatively, you can go a roach all in. Because no protoss in bronze expects that

Bah, noone in bronze expects a 4 gate ... unfortuantely I'm mid-gold at the moment and sentries are ruining my life

[cruxis]

Just drone. Send an overlord in at 4:30 - 5.00. If he's going 4 gate, you should see it, unless he has some whacked out placement. Chuck down a roach warren straight away and 2 crawlers.By the time he gets to you, you should have 3 or 4 roaches and 2 queens and 2 crawlers. Should be plenty to hold it off. Also might want to make some lings to take out the proxy pylon. If you can get that. 9/10 times the 4 gate is stopped.

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by cruxis

Just drone. Send an overlord in at 4:30 - 5.00. If he's going 4 gate, you should see it, unless he has some whacked out placement. Chuck down a roach warren straight away and 2 crawlers.By the time he gets to you, you should have 3 or 4 roaches and 2 queens and 2 crawlers. Should be plenty to hold it off. Also might want to make some lings to take out the proxy pylon. If you can get that. 9/10 times the 4 gate is stopped.

no, you do NOT go roaches vs the 5:40 1 gas 4 gate. You go roaches vs every other 4 gate as you have the economy to afford them.

vs the 5:40 4 gate with stalker/zealot, mainly zealot, drone up to 20-22 and mass ling like crazy. keep a small squad of them to go around picking off pylons while a battle is going on and just micro so that the stalkers are taking more shots than zealots.

[cruxis]

If it's sentry heavy, have lings outside his base, so when he moves out, you can take them out, or have them waste energy.

[BubbleT]

Hatch first is vulnerable to zealot pressure and cannons. If you suspect a 4 gate confirm it before you drone much above 20 then either go roaches or mass lings until the push is over. Unit comp + spines seems to be a matter of personal preference just don't drone too much or you will lose.

Keep a group of lings out on the map, try to stall as much as possible by threatening counter attacks (at least force them to do a full wall in with a pylon at their ramp), threatening his proxy pylon etc. but don't lose lings needlessly - every unit counts.

If you kill their proxy pylon and they retreat the push should be over and you can probably drone a bit while trying to delay any expansion they want to take with your left over units (if possible).

[dennistoo]

Yes, what EdgE said is right. To counter 1 Gas 4 gate is to get mass speedlings.

[PiG]

Get someone to do it on you so you can practice. What Edge said, LOTS of zerglings.

But your opener needs to be tight so that you get these out in time to stop a pylon going up right outside your natural. Personally i prefer 14 pool -16 hatch, 18 gas. With this opener you need to hold off the first wave with non-speed lings but you're double injects kick in slightly faster.

Note: this opener is weak to stalker/zealot early harass, so it is a tradeoff you need to be ready for.


However I'm not sure that what you were dealing with was that specific 4gate. It was probably a variety of 4-gates, and probably weren't executed to very close timings. Here is what you need to look for with 4gate:

1) 2nd gas timing: if the protoss takes the second gas before your scouting drone is forced out, around 18-23 supply, then you don't need to worry about the super fast zealot + stalker 5:30 4gate. If they stay on 1 gas then you need to react as said above as that 4 gate is their only streamlined route from this opener.

2) Nexus energy! If as the cyber core finishes there's 70ish energy on the nexus you can count on there being very fast warpgates.

Basic rule: More chrono energy used on probes= later aggression.
More chrono energy used on warpgate + units = earlier aggression

3) Overlord scout around the 5:30 (the time its actually entering the base, not the time you tell it to move in) will often reveal warpgate numbers.

Ok so as to how to react to a 2 gas 4/5 gate push. You will need spines or roaches as zerglings will be made much less useful by forcefields.

If you're base has a narrow entrance (Shakuras, shattered temple etc.) then you can rely on spine + ling alone, you simply need to be ready with a ridiculous number of spines if they commit fully. If they see your 3 spines with a fast 4gate and turn around dont simply sit in your base droning up. Scout with lings and ovies to see if they're expanding or teching up at all and react accordingly. Often they will simply wait for 2 more rounds of units at which point your low spine count will be obliterated.

So if your relying on spine defense:
1) make sure you keep building spines as they keep warping in units.
2) replace the drones spent on spine crawlers unless you have an excess of drones harvesting
3) an extra queen or two early storing energy for transfuse is a cost-effective way of buffing up this kind of defense.

If you're relying on roach defense: Make sure you don't be prematurely afraid of a 4gate and start building roaches at the 4 minute mark every game. If you'd like to use roach defense just get your economy going up to about 30 drones, maybe more I'm not quite sure on the numbers in this case, though over 30 is probably way 2 many. Once your in a comfy position you can really start pumping those roaches out quickly. A spine or 2 with their 7 range help support roaches alot too. Check the attack timings of 2-gas 4-gates that you're losing to and find how many drones you can push yourself to and still get out enough roaches to fight off the attack. Remember that you will probably need the roaches out before they reach your base as FF on your ramp cuts off your main hatchery from reinforcing.

Note that you may have to pull drones at some points to tank but your opponents strategy is very all-in, as long as you survive with a similar worker count you're a base up.

"Of these, two I failed to defend a 4 gate and the last I overcommitted defending the 4 gate and I couldn't get back into it and lost a little while later."


--> chances are you built your roach warren too early, didn't pull drones off gas after you had enough for ling speed, and spent several more drones on spines. Basically, before he even attacked it sounds like your economy was in shambles from overreacting. Roaches are not something you want to be getting too early as you need to harvest gas when you're already starved for minerals getting your expo, queens and drone count up. Not to mention the warren costs 150 mins + drone. Try to get more comfortable not going for your warren until you're up to atleast 22-25 workers.

In summary:

Rely just on a few zerglings and queen until:

If 1 gas toss: 5:40 you need shitton of lings
If 2 gas toss: 6:45ish earliest aggression you will probably be seeing. Roach/spines to react.

Get your economy going, but be aware of what point you need to swap into units according to nexus energy and gas count.

[TAEdgE]

Wish i had the effort to explain that in depth. Kudos. PiG is completely right.

[unpro]

That's an awesome response PiG, really in depth and just the sort of info I like to know Thanks!

[nGenLight]

Wow you dirty pro zergs Edge and Pig!

Okay time to fake a second gas!

[nirvAnA]

time to fake 4 gate into quick +1, 5 gate zealot sentry attack!

[PiG]

No probs unpro, I spent an entire lesson with a platinum zerg on how to stop 4gates yesterday so all the specifics were in my head.

I'm currently giving lessons for $10-15/hour so if anyone wants one send me a PM or email: jkrensel@hotmail.com.

My mechanics might b shoddy due to schoolwork but the knowledge is all still there!


Haha and Light just try it! I'll know somethings up, my starsense is strong! :P