[ProAnnn]

As most player should know, one extremely popular strategy for zerg is roach/lings aggression off 2 bases against protoss and hitting them at about 7.30.

I would like to hear thoughts from both top zergs and protosses about this build.

Especially top protosses and how they hold this aggression. Thanks.

[nirvAnA]

the popular way for protoss to hold off this build is to make a forge with good simcity then if they scout the semi-allin get cannons and use your FF to stall till they are up and bam ure safe. make a mistake with ur ffs and the game is over.

ive got 2 really strong builds vs this particular build, one is a robo obs first which totally rapes the all in which zergs always seem to do to me in close spawns, coz u just delay ur expand then move out with a mini deathball vs the zerg who made units instead of droning up. lol some "known" zerg player even called my build retarded after losing to it. the build sounds ridiculous but my winrate is so insanely high with it so i keep doing it.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

the popular way for protoss to hold off this build is to make a forge with good simcity then if they scout the semi-allin get cannons and use your FF to stall till they are up and bam ure safe. make a mistake with ur ffs and the game is over.

ive got 2 really strong builds vs this particular build, one is a robo obs first which totally rapes the all in which zergs always seem to do to me in close spawns, coz u just delay ur expand then move out with a mini deathball vs the zerg who made units instead of droning up. lol some "known" zerg player even called my build retarded after losing to it. the build sounds ridiculous but my winrate is so insanely high with it so i keep doing it.

I was thinking of opening 1 gate robo into expand but would it be viable if they zerg scouted your robo and decides to drone up hardcore instead of attacking and you would be slightly behind? When do you expand when go robo obs first? How many gates do you have?

[nirvAnA]

Originally Posted by ProAnnn

I was thinking of opening 1 gate robo into expand but would it be viable if they zerg scouted your robo and decides to drone up hardcore instead of attacking and you would be slightly behind? When do you expand when go robo obs first? How many gates do you have?

The build works precisely because the zerg doesnt know what you are doing. Meaning you must deny scouting at all costs so the zerg would not know if ure 4 gating/ stargating, DT rushing, etc so they end up sacrificing economy preparing for all of this and in the end u just go with the robo build. if they dont all in, all the top zergs i play have a spore crawler, sunkens etc ready when i play them lol.

as for expanding i do so when my obs has seen what he has, if hes droning up ill expand with just 2 sentries 1 stalker 1 zealot

[Next_rim]

Especially top protosses and how they hold this aggression.

What protoss build is this supposed to counter? I play forge expands with stargate, so don't ever see early pushes )

I'm assuming a 3-gate expo will scout after nexus, count drones and spines, figure out a timing push, add forge and immortals. Or cancel nexus and counter-push with immortals.

2-gate-robo will have observer and gazillion of sentries, and a colossus by 8:30-ish mark. Forcefield till colossus out and enjoy War of the Worlds.

[Tom]

Discussion of this topic is at: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...&currentpage=8

The precise question on TeamLiquid is whether 3 gate expand is still a viable build. The answer to this depends to some extent on whether it is possible to hold the timings that can hit you at 7:30 to 8:30.

I don't think there is a consensus. Certainly the amount of S-Class GSL protosses dying to the timing attack recently when going 3 gate expand at least suggests there may be an issue with the viability of 3 gate expand.

If anything can be gleaned from the thread (good post by Minigun on page 8 for example), it is that it is necessary follow up 3gate exp with good simcity, being a forge and fourth gate. You then need to make a fast cannon and warp only stalkers (after the 8 or so sentries). The timing is very tight, as you seem to get hit with mass ling and 8-12 roaches when you have perhaps 1 zlot, 8 sentries, 3 stalkers and 2 cannons building.

There is also an earlier timing I've been hit with (around 6:30) where the zerg makes basically no drones from the expansion (see eg oGsMC v MVP_DongRaeGu - I realise this is somewhat different as MC went 1gate no gas expand on a large map). I have had this all in done against me when going 3gate expand, and it actually hit before your nexus finishes, let alone have any cannons or stalkers. I think the best response here is to cancel the nexus and consider just 5 gating.

[ProAnnn]

This build is meant to counter 3 gate expo. I just wanted to get the general SEA top players views on this build and how they deal with it.

Personally i have not much trouble dealing with it (Mid-masters) on tight maps with decent forcefields and 1 cannon. However, i occasionally die to it on wide maps like xelnaga caverns.

[AvPoker]

How come whenever I try to do roach ling aggression against 3 gate expo I lose ;;

[mR.bONG789]

try the hulu before warpgate 2 gate expo build, it allows you to scout much sooner (around 2 mins earlyer) so you can nearly always see the rush. with the earlly forge you can protect your expo easier. its harder to pressure against a zerg who just drones though since you are only on 2 gateways. i usually hide a probe at the zerg's third so i can cannon his base if he double expos.