[MezjE]

I am a recently promoted gold toss and was wondering how I should deal with this 'Hammer 111' build.

I played this guy 3 times in a row on ladder and every time we both got to around 3 bases and he would just mass Thors and Cloaked Banshees and push out with ~20 SCVs. I am struggling to figure out how on earth to beat this. In the final game we were both on 3 base and I had ~8 High Templar, 4 Colossus and maxed on mostly stalkers and some zealots but got crushed... I feedbacked literally everything I could and was still literally CRUSHED. I watched the replays and realised he has next to nothing early game but find it hard to pressure as he usuriously has one Thor by the time 4gate/3gate Void Ray hit and he just pulls all his SCVs and repairs forever... I am thinking maybe go blink stalker 4 gate or War Prism as getting in to his base early game was so hard I found...


What frustrates me more is every time he messages me and tells me how he always win with that build and how 111 is the best. This really pisses me off as by 3/4 bases his 11 opening literally has no effect on the game at all and he doesn't even pressure with it... It is more like a 3 base, 4/4/4 or something D:

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[Satu]

Post a replay so we can tell you whats wrong, otherwise we have to make assumptions about how you're playing.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

[|Erasmus|]

actually, i find DTs are usually an annoying form of harass against thor builds.

But colossi are expensive and less useful against thors. Get Immortals from your robo instead. Stalkers suck against thors, I think Light said you want 3 stalkers per banshee or something. For your splash damage against repairing scvs, go archons, as they can also hit banshees.

Make extra observers so he can't snipe one and then go to town with cloaked banshees.

[MezjE]

Thanks!
I would have posted the replay but was in a fit of rage and couldn't find the holder and couldn't be bothered TT
3 Stalkers per banshee sounds right, Templar maybe not the best option as feedback isn't nearly as powerful as I had hoped. Observers however I was on top of. Next time I think given the lack of early aggression I will go super quick 3rd and go Stalkers with some immortals and possible archons presuming I am not gas starved

[Fairyking]

FF around the thors so he cant repair?

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Roage

FF around the thors so he cant repair?

Thors are "Massive" so they crush Forcefields.

[Daboo]

You need to post a replay. Because You could go with any unit combination really. Upgraded chargelots work okay against thors, while your stalkers take out the banshees. And even though the first round gets killed, you can re-max after you take care of the banshees, because your on 4+ bases, with a lot of gateways and money to boot.

But after a certain point your going to have to storm the banshees, because nothing on the ground can really cope up against a huge number of banshees. Or you could've gone immortal stalker templar...or archons for splash.....really it's all very finger in the air unless you post a replay.

The best thing to do when dealing with a weird tough to handle unit composition, is to not let them get it in the first place. (or in day9's words, the counter to everything thing is to f***ing kill him ).

[nirvAnA]

Layz there was a similar thread awhile ago against thor/banshee which is quite similar to this, good advice in there from numerous protoss players and i also added a replay you can check out that counters it

[Terranate]

Im playing around this hammer1/1/1 and the weakest point is the initial units mech is gass heavy build , so if the toss gets a good harss it will mess up the build say dt or blink stalkers at early game since there is less units to go around his base thors are slow

[FlashVeno]

i think you should have got storm, storm kills the marines and SCV's very quickly..without repair thors arnt very strong.. chargelot + immortal should beat them. storms should also kill or damage banshees enough for your stalkers to kill them

[ToRFutureBoy]

Immortals......so damn good against thors, remember their attacks are limited to 10 each from units like thors. I played a 2v2 with a mate the other night and both our opponents went thors, so I massed immortals and they crushed the thors.
And obviously as people have said stalkers for the banshees, blink as well ideally so you can take them out.
And of course scouting all the time so you know what he's going to build and when and where his pushes will be. What were upgrades like for each of you as well?

[Trusty]

You need storm for the banshees/marine/scv.

Don't get many stalkers.

I always favour Air + Templar tech vs Mech; Storm , blink for small harass, moving up to vr/carrier.

[mR.bONG789]

imo void rays are pretty key vs any sort of heavy thor comp. not only are they good against thors, they also mess with the thor attack ai and make the thors use their weak air attack rather than their stupidly high dps ground attack. u must spread them well however or else they get like one shoted by the thors if they're stacked

u'll want either colossi or storm to deal with the marines or helions (more likely marine) which they will dump their minerals on as well as any scvs they bring to repair. storm is generally better imo as u can deal with the banshees even after your obs gets sniped. it also opens up storm drops as harass.

u'll also want like 2 sentrys for GS against marines. if u overmade sentrys before scouting his comp, i suggest u get hallucination and halu voids to mess with ai.

u will also want some immortals to clean up the thors after all the terran buffer units have died as zealots dont do too well against large numbers of thors( like 7+). dont commit to immortals before u have enough splash units however as they will just melt to the marines before they do anything to the thors.

the worst unit to make is actually stalkers as do terribly against thors, banshees and larg amounts of stimed marines. sure u can harass, but u also have to defend against their banshees which is easier said than done as a banshee beats a stalker 1 on 1 so u have to warp in 2 stalkers for every banshee. only make stalkers to deflect early banshee harass then tech to either storm or phoenix to defend futher banshee harass.

btw plz dont call it the "hammer 111", that guy just takes other people's builds, makes it worse and puts his name on it. the build is more like jjakjii's build from gsl