[PapaBigBelly]

Hey guys ive been just been jaw-dropping to Spanishwa's 3rd at the 4-5 min marks in most of his games and it WORKS for him hahaha

I have been trying it recently and it has been proven very effective. I can get maxed faster by 15 min instead of the usual 16-17 min mark.

It really overpowers through your opponents econ and i feel that its most effective when the T or P takes an FE such as Forge FE, 2 Rax bunker rush FE, 1 rax FE, 14 CC, 1 gate FE or 14/15 hatch as they will most probably turtle and wait for a timing attack which can be scouted.

So what do you guys think of the super fast 3rd? or do you guys still normally like to take the standard 9-10min 3rd.

I think its GREAT as it gives me more Larva and Time to drone up as the opponent taking an expansion might not move out until later.

[Flaunt]

Ya, it will start to become standard once the map pool is fixed. It works great against the forge fast expo, but just remember to spread the creep to your third asap and get the extra queens.

[Satu]

Expanding at about the 6 min mark in ZvP can work, because of the fact that they cant do anything about it if they are trying to macro. Aquanda has exploited this heavily in his build, and just expands pretty much everywhere in the period of time where the protoss cannot attack if they choose to macro. Of course, if they choose to be aggressive instea, you can just stay on 3base and slowly drone up while defending.

Although, I dont see how it'd work vs terran or zerg.

Vs terran, they should have a timing where they can push out and you shouldn't have much to defend it.

Vs zerg, they will pretty much always be able to move out and deny your third unless you are extremely far ahead.

[nirvAnA]

for zvp its one of the good ways of countering fast cannon expands

if vs a non-fe protoss its an auto loss vs a good 4 gater

[TAEdgE]

It's more economical and safer too to expand at 5:40-6:00 in ZvP.

Also, i dont think time you expand to a third is the key to maxing that fast. I've maxed at 13:00 playing with a 6 minute third in zvp.

[AvPoker]

Getting a quick third as zerg is not rare and its a common response when you scout the opponent going for a fast expansion build (command center/nexus first builds).

[ETL.Santi]

and if it doesnt work, zergs can always QQ

[cure]

Just pray ur opponent doesn't 5gate nexus cancel.

[UncleTom]

hopefully blizzard can take some of there rocks out of there map pool

[cruxis]

Blizzard remove rocks? If anything they'd put more in.

[PiG]

A 4-5 minute 3rd will only ever be safe in the case of your opponent doing a very fast FE. It makes me think of the TSL set of Ret vs Naniwa where Ret won set 2 with a 4 hatch opener against standard 1 base toss. Naniwa scouted the 3 hatches and for some reason chose not to 4 gate. This i will never understand. A zerg can never hope to hold a 4gate if they've sunk 6-900 minerals into hatcheries they cant use.

Even in the case of FE, You must take very late gases for such an early hatchery to help you in any way. You will not have enough drones to maximise the extra patches, nor enough minerals to use all your larvae if you're getting any standard 14-20 gas timing. So yeah it's safe, but you better be damn comfortable with a tech disadvantage and know how to transition just right out of it. I've tried spanishiwa style a few times and found it too stressful cos almost all the timings, which I have spent months learning and feeling out, get thrown off by such a different approach to building up your econ. Sometimes watching spanishiwa's unit control I feel like he's just as confused as his opponent as to what the proper reactions to things should be. He seems to follow a philosophy of attack like crazy all over the place whilst covering the map... which I really cant fault, he gets tempo and rolls with it. But if you're trying to do his sort of play to get ahead in the early game get friends to practice 4 gates, 2 rax pressures etc. on you. Also practice vs an opponent who just powers off 2 base and hits a strong timing. Cos you'll need to have your gas and tech timings really fine tuned to have them up in time to hold these. Infestors add a huge strength to ling/blingqueen type compositions.

[Starcraftmazter]

This requires a high level all in response from terran.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter

This requires a high level all in response from terran.

Actually if the Z takes a quick third, we don't have much offensive capability, thus being greedy and taking your own third isnt completely out of the question.

[Starcraftmazter]

Originally Posted by Benji

Actually if the Z takes a quick third, we don't have much offensive capability, thus being greedy and taking your own third isnt completely out of the question.

Leaving the zerg free to drone and then outmass you? Code S quality right there.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter

Leaving the zerg free to drone and then outmass you? Code S quality right there.

should probably watch kjh do it then

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter

Leaving the zerg free to drone and then outmass you? Code S quality right there.

There are ways to force the Zerg to make units without going allin.

[crAzerk]

Actually I would think it's only viable when your P or T opponent goes for some fast expand. In fact, it's probably a necessary response! (to stay one base ahead, yada yada)

If you double expand (early 3rd) I would think a typical early mid game push would crush you? Not quite sure.

And of course ZvZ is very variable so I won't go into it.