[CagnacciKid]

Hey everyone,

Recently I was told I needed to improve my macro (thanks DalvernX!) and that if I did that, I could easily climb out of Bronze and into Silver/Gold. I decided to play a few AI matches doing nothing but building SCV's and Supply Depots, and pressuring the enemy with constant Marines from 4 Reactor Rax. To my surprise, my macro improved almost instantly - I was able to handle all of the tasks at once, never got supply blocked, had workers constantly being produced, kept my resources low and won all the AI matches.

On a whim, I took this "strategy" into a ladder game, not expecting to come away victorious. The match-up was TvZ. I won. I have since won approximately 9 out of 10 matches with this strategy, only losing one because I was tired and making bad mistakes. I have since set up an easy transition (Marine/Tank/Medivac/Viking) particularly for TvT, in case my mass marines don't cut it.

But now I wonder: Is this strategy cheese? It doesn't seem to be, as I'm not sacrificing economy, I actually have great economy.

Also, is this strategy really going to help me? Or will it just feed me easy wins until I get to Gold/Platinum and then leave me high and dry with little practice with anything else?

Cheers.

[Satu]

Well I can explain very simply how mass marine can fail in TvZ. Banelings.

I dont remember the time where someone went mass rines and I lost to it. Its darn easy to scout it, then you make a couple of banes and at the very least, you cut their army in half.

To pretty much every strategy (Except maybe terran mech) there is a way that it can be easily countered. If your opponent is actively scouting you, sees what you are making and transitions accordingly (as zerg), then since it is such a simple unit composition to stop, it can put you behind.

Although, if you DO transition out of it after the first attack, it could work well, IF the opponent doesnt have banes for the first defence.

[NDG.Stitch]

Mass Marines is NEVER the way to any game. Marines are great units to use with Marauders, Thors, Siege tanks, but you can never depend on a full marine army. There is basically a counter for marines in every race. Easily said, for Zerg, there are blings and infestors. For toss, one colo at the back will kill you. And for terran, 4 blue flame hellions would finish your marine army in no time.
Marines are useful in late games tho when you're at 3-3, because drops can be so important. But never go straight up marines, because it's a very, very risky thing to do.

[Makra]

It gets you easy wins in bronze because people don't scout enough/don't know how to counter what they see. You'll need to learn some other strats because in silver or higher people will just put down bunkers/get early tanks/get banelings etc. Blue flame hellions are also getting more popular now and they will dominate this sort of strat.

[Benji]

Do me a favor and try what you're doing except:

Only get 3 rax
Put a techlab on one of them.

Now get Marauders from the one with the techlab and Marines from the 2 reactors. Keep focusing on getting scv's, Marines, Marauders and Supply depots.

Once youve mastered that after a few games (at least 10), start getting Stim/Combatshields/Concuss Shell from the techlab as well.

Once you've got that, I want you to build a command centre once you've got 400 minerals.

[noobinater]

Mass marines are only a really viable strategy when you're bot Korean and stealing The Emperor's name.

[Kringe]

1 word FUN

[Crankenstein]

Day9 just did a daily on PvT with mass marines.

They aren't bad. It's all about how you use them.

If you are interested, check it out here: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4807584/

[CagnacciKid]

Wow, this thread attracted more attention that I thought it would.

@Zergtastic & Stitch: Indeed, it CAN be countered very easily. However, I've tried to set up my transition so that it covers these weak points. And at my level, I barely ever get scouted or countered properly, so this build is meant to build on my macro skills.

@Makra: Yeah, I need to learn some better builds if I move up, but at my level (low bronze) it's quite viable. I've won 12 games so far with this tactic, against all races.

@Benji: Okay, I tried it, but I still like my 4 Rax. However, I'm now building one Tech lab and three Reactors, the odd Marauder helps even out my army. And Stim + Shield is too good to miss out on. And I was already expanding often.

@Crankenstein: Wow! Great find! I'll have to watch it later tonight. Thanks!

Cheers guys.

[StitcH]

It really depends on what you do. If you mirco really well like GSL 2 of MarineKing, that's really sick. It works really well, if you cheese with Makarax or 2 rax all in with svcs if you know they have little units or FE-ing.

[Jaii]

Hi CagnacciKid,

you have discovered the first pillar of RTS games - more stuff beats less stuff. Any player with master's quality macro will be in platinum regardless of unit composition or control. Enough a-moved marines can kill anything (subject to population limits of course).

Macro is harder to learn when you are confusing it with strategy, and I applaud you for going the marines-only path. I assure you that if you perfect your macro making only-marines, you will not only shoot up the SC2 ranks, but as you get more comfortable with the macro you can start to build out from there strategy wise.

I got to diamond on NA a few months after release playing a simple strategy I had learnt to play sc2 with in team gaming - aim for marines with +3+3 +stim+shield. Nothing else. Not even a medivac.

I think any player who is currently BSG and seriously wants to be diamond+ could do well to follow your lead, and to break down the game into its basic components. The first level is getting the most stuff. The second level is what stuff to get. The third and final level is controlling the fancy, diverse stuff without breaking the first pillar. A systematic learning style would focus on each in turn.

[ProAnnn]

My advice would be go Marine Medivac for your marines in TvZ while you go Marine Marauder Medivac in TvP. It will be alot better

[dennistoo]

Early game on mass marines yes. Mid/late is a no no even with medivac. I would suggest marines drop instead.

[cure]

Marines for early pressure against zerg is the norm, sticking to marines the entire game is not. Add in a few tanks and micro well and you should still win.

[kabba]

In 1v1s I have been finding lots of success with 1 rax 1 factory 1 starport early. If you can hold out any early attacks and expand this open makes it very easy to transition to counter what ever your opponent is doing.

[iRLpuku]

i still do mass marines in high diamond against zerg and a timing push with shields and stim is still deadly. with good marine micro, ling/bling wun stop u. most zerg goes ling bling muta against terran mmm. and the only unit gd agianst both lings and mutas are marines. jus spread yer rines with stim and try nt to engage on creep. banelings without speed upgrade can be easily kited.

[cure]

Originally Posted by pukusam

i still do mass marines in high diamond against zerg and a timing push with shields and stim is still deadly. with good marine micro, ling/bling wun stop u. most zerg goes ling bling muta against terran mmm. and the only unit gd agianst both lings and mutas are marines. jus spread yer rines with stim and try nt to engage on creep. banelings without speed upgrade can be easily kited.

I find this true. Without infestors, mass marines do work really well.

[Crankenstein]

Our very own StimmedProbe has an awesome mass marine build that he used in the Community Open.

You Tube

You Tube

Very cool game, lots of aggression, constantly back and forth. Very exciting