[LGShaft]

Reapers received a lot of changes in Heart of the Swarm, and for players that don't exist at the highest level -- namely, 99% of the playing population -- this portion of the game can be highly frustrating. Some players think they lack the micro or actions to handle such harassment, but that's simply not the case. There are certain techniques that shut down this kind of harassment in its tracks -- as long as you can see it coming -- and when shut down, the Terran pays a very hefty price.

A lot of Zerg have been having issues with losing to Reapers; this is an attempt to explain direct damage versus indirect damage, and how to minimize both in your play.

This is a how-to guide for dealing with Reaper openings as a Zerg player. This is a technique tutorial, not a build order one -- that is to say, the lessons taught in this video will apply to almost any build order.

You Tube

You Tube

[ToRSpookToR]

Ok i just watched 13 mins if this video its 45 mins long for a very very simple problem perhaps a bit to big? regardless it should help people cheers for posting.

[LGShaft]

Thanks Spook. Ended up making a TLDR version of it. Same link, but it gives people the option to skip ahead. My goal, though, was to give a very in-depth look at the subject, rather than glossing over certain items like a lot of strategic material out there. A lot of people seem to have heard Zerg needs a strong economy early, and they try to hold rushes like this with that absolute mentality. They have an issue tying the two together -- if you suffer economic damage to a rush, what expenses did your opponent incur to execute that rush? Everything is relative, afterall -- if two players open 9 pool, should they both GG when the rush fails? No the game stabilizes in other ways.

By the way, it's not a very simple problem at the lower levels. I've had several students whine to me over the last few weeks about how imba reapers are. They seem to be stuck in this situation where they're losing games to Reapers, so they start over compensating. Making spines before they need to, too many lings, et cetera. Of course, this cuts into their drone count, and while this does fairly well against actually beating Reapers, what happens if the Terran doesn't do that? Quite simply, the Zerg loses. They're sacrificing economic potential for absolute safety, which quite frankly doesn't exist.

[Meatex]

All problems are by definition simple at lower levels and I find when teaching that over-complicating things is going to achieve the opposite of what you want
4 lings and 2-3 queens is enough to deal with 2 reapers and if they are losing too many drones then its because of something else like supply cap or bad opening or mis control

[LGShaft]

Originally Posted by Meatex

All problems are by definition simple at lower levels and I find when teaching that over-complicating things is going to achieve the opposite of what you want
4 lings and 2-3 queens is enough to deal with 2 reapers and if they are losing too many drones then its because of something else like supply cap or bad opening or mis control

That's a very 2-dimensial viewpoint that fails to take into consideration over-reactions. Afterall, if you can crush a Reaper rush overwhelmingly, that's good right? You know, more lings, more queens, absolute safety...

Yes, I'm trolling there. The point is, viewpoints like the one you're expressing don't actually help folks. Imagine you just picked up the game. You have no preconceived notions of the way the game is played, and when someone says "hey as long as you defend this, you're ahead," you then wonder why you die convincingly in the mid-game. There are plenty of guides out there consisting of

To deal with reapers -
1. Scout (13-scout)
2. Run around and pull drones that get hurt (Drone turns red and is about to die, make a spine or something then cancel)
3. Queens pop, get 2 more for 4 queens.
4. Run queens around like a mad man.
4. Reapers held.
Most Terrans aren't going to go more than 1-2 reapers, continue opening with 4x queens and enjoy your early lead.

... why would I just add to that cest pool? This is a long guide, yes. But it is also comprehensive. Rather than making someone go to one store to get bread, another to get lettuce, a third to get beef, and a fourth to get mayonaise, I went ahead and made the hamburger for them. To quote you:

its because of something else like supply cap or bad opening or mis control

Two of those three things are covered in this video, and are directly relevant to the subject. So I have to ask, in what world is it okay to create a vod and not discuss those issues? The term "miscontrol" doesn't actually help people get better, last I checked. By the way, there's a TLDR link in the video, for people who didn't want to commit so much time to the video. Yet if someone is piqued by something discussed, they always have the rest of the vod to get the extra information. It's win-win.

Also... "all problems are simple at lower levels" is profoundly stupid. I'm sorry, I respect you as a person, but that statement is retarded. One could say that problems are easier at the lower levels, that micro is worse, that timings will be off. All of that is valid. But the same problem of direct damage versus indirect damage exists at the lowest level as well as the highest, and as you'll see in the OP, that is what this VoD focuses on--staying alive without over-reacting.

In conclusion, I'd like to share the viewpoints of some of the nice, confused people that I'm not helping and overcomplicating Starcraft for:

On April 12 2013 07:00 kingjames01 wrote:
The video contains a very detailed explanation about the early game ZvT (Reaper openings) and is worth a watch.

He compares and contrasts 3 different games and the benchmarks that the Z player should be attempting to reach. He also details various tells about Reaper openings and argues that Reaper openings put the T player behind an econ-based T opening.

Anyway, very great video and I'm glad I watched it.

On April 12 2013 09:42 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
Great stuff. The level of detail separates this from the typical gold level "strategy" vids. like that

On April 12 2013 10:51 DeFMUDE wrote:
Great Vid,

though I never had problems "handeling" reapers and though I kinda figured out things like zoning or the right amount of lings, just by watching progames and my own replays, I now have a much deeper understanding of that opening. I now have backkground info, benchmarks and can evaluate the outcome of this kind of openings more precise, as by simply saying "reapers didn't kill drones, Z is ahead".

Thanks for that!

I'd love to see analysis of more situations, openings, etc. in that format! Keep up the good work!

[Meatex]

If the vod is about reacting without over-reacting then you really should just call it that
Because a video on how to deal with reapers simply does not need to be this long or detailed.
If player holds reapers with just queens and a few lings - something they should know they can do - then losing in the mid game has nothing to do with the reapers is the point I'm making.
Reapers aren't a huge part of the game like something like widow mines or defending drops

Props to you for making an in depth video though you should either rename it or remake it to be far simpler. As a former teacher I can tell you that keeping things simple is best way to teach.

[LGShaft]

Originally Posted by Meatex

If player holds reapers with just queens and a few lings - something they should know they can do

Umm... yes, because Bronzies should be assumed to know everything Taeja knows. Makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Meatex

Reapers aren't a huge part of the game like something like widow mines or defending drops

Those VoDs are definitely already up on my channel. People ASKED for this VoD, so I made it. Most of my students are complaining about reapers. I agree with you, not a big deal, but not everybody was as lucky as you to become a GM upon opening the Starcraft 2 box. Some of us actually had to start by watching videos. Astonishing, I know.

Originally Posted by Meatex

Props to you for making an in depth video though you should either rename it or remake it to be far simpler. As a former teacher I can tell you that keeping things simple is best way to teach.

Umm... yeah...

Originally Posted by Shaft

This is an attempt to explain direct damage versus indirect damage, and how to minimize both in your play.

I'm done with this conversation lol. But before I go, you should know I'm a professor at UCLA. I teach for a living, thanks, and I teach those who care. Plenty of people out there making dumbed down versions for the masses.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by LGShaft

...

Way to jump down the throat of someone offering you some constructive criticism...

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	what constructive criticism?
	Paroxysm:	That was in no way constructive criticism..
	LGShaft:	Yeah I really didn't see that as very constructive. "Dismissive" might be a better word.

[SanG]

Just don't make drones from your nat till u get queens lol.

[Meatex]

righto bro

[NvRossi]

its a pretty sick in-depth analysis. I love to see this style of teaching and find it very interesting. Its a great method to separate yourself from a more standard analysis that is more readily available.

Tbh its no different in length to the average day9 daily which on occassion can focus on simple scenarios such as this.

IMO the constructive criticism in this thread is pretty dam weak, however you do need to handle it a bit better then responding passive aggressively.

keep it up and gl

[LGShaft]

Rossi you're right I do need to handle it better. Yesterday was a terrible day for me. Without going into too much of what or why, my insurance company was trying to kill me (diabetic not receiving insulin = very bad).

My apologies for the abrasive trolling. I'm going to blame the high blood sugars :P

Originally Posted by Meatex

If the vod is about reacting without over-reacting then you really should just call it that

Btw, new video title: How to Minimize Direct Damage and Indirect Damage in Zerg versus Terran match-ups involving Reaper Openings for Dummies. Think it'll work guys? :P

[YoonBaekHee]

good guide but it was kind of long :/

[iM tgun]

Post was reported, I'll be reading it after ACL. Consider this your one warning to reread your post and think "am I about to get slapped?"

Because you probably are.

[LGShaft]

Hmm. Not sure if tgun is talking to me or the guy who's name says "Banned."

[eMp.distyL]

I have to agree with Rossi on this one, great detailed teaching.
It is very helpful for people learning even helped me as a veteran zerg to learn some little nifty things!
props.

[LGShaft]

Thanks Uploading one to youtube right now, so be sure to check it out at 5 PM EST