[Millionaire]

I'm playing in the master league now and formerly a mid gm long time ago. As a random player I understand imbalances and always abuse them to their fullest potential . Tvp is one of my best matchups but I have never been able to beat a Protoss of equal skill in late game when I go bio . Mech n sky Terran are definitely out of the picture. Now my question is how do I engaged a Protoss army consists of gateway units , colossus, observers , high Templars and dark Templars for harassment.I have tried going mass orbitals sacrificing all my scvs to get a huge supply advantage but still lose. I have tried sniping observers , scanning everywhere and landed almost perfect EMPs but still not enough. Pls help

[MooZfY]

I have the exact same problem as you right now.

[mGMUSE]

unfortunately starcraft 2 isn't designed perfectly and tvp is a good example of it.

don't let it go to late-game.

Quick Comments

MooZfY:

:D!

[dippa]

you have to pick off observers, cloak your ghosts and try and emp everything before the engagement.

alternatively, you could also go mass orbital command to reduce your scv count to then increase the size of your army.

[cruxBsK]

yeah its not easy but again echo the comments of clocking ghosts and emp everything before the engage send your vikes out to gun down the colo and engage maybe try spread into a bit of an arch before the engage too, don't engage in chokes if you can help it.

[Volition]

I can completely relate to the OP, I loaded my last few months up in sc2gears last night, it appears I haven't won a TvP that was longer than 30 minutes. Normally I am ending them before this time, but at the same time I have no idea how to beat that army, the one that contains - Colossi, HT, zealot stalker.

I feel I have tried many different strats, I am using the ghosts and getting off good emps, blanket emps at times, and am still getting annihilated. I have been trying to stay ahead of the late game protoss army in upgrades, but once again it hasnt helped. I think the problem is how i am engaging the army - because it only take a few colossi shots or a good storm or two and you are completely outgunned in your fight.

TvP is the matchup i feel the most lost. Am i destined to continue doing 2 marauder 1 marine pushes and hoping? As zerg i had a rule that if 98% of games, if the game went past 16 minutes, I won. I am starting to feel the rule goes the other way as terran when using bio.

Cheers, Volition

[PiG]

lategame TvP micro is friggin hard. but seriously just analyse a bunch of reps and watch how you can position, focus, and spread units better. This needs to be perfect before saccing scvs even helps. Cos an extra 50 supply is just gunna die to archon storm colloss if you aren't microing correctly. Watch mvp play tvp for inspiration!

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by PiG

Watch mvp play tvp for inspiration!

Watch MVP for any Terran match up imo

Quick Comments

Mox:

The guy is amazing

[aLtMrFool]

My advise? Remember what day(9) says.

Quote : Starcraft II players safely assume that you can win the game during any point in the game. That is simply not true and there were situations in Starcraft brood war where it was just impossible to win.

He said something along thay line. He's triple GM and my interpretation is : in TvP, you either end the game early with constant aggression, or harass well so that P can never get that good mix of deathball that just romps you over. If you watched Flash of SC BW play, from what I've read, is he always has an aim to get a certain build done. You either stop him, or you die like the rest. Maybe we can learn from that and apply it to SC II TvP instead of whining about how difficult it is. I do agree that it's really difficult and I stand no chance against an equally skilled protoss too!

And no, don't watch mvp TvP if you wanna practise bioball late game micro, he doesn't like to play it out as well because I'm sure he knows TvP with equal skill at late game favours protoss more. He plays so many tournaments and I don't think he wants to sink so much time into practising something that won't reward him as much! In fact, he does very unorthodox TvP which includes 1:1:1, 2 port cloaked banshees(wtf? How does he even make it work?!?!) And many other insane builds!

You wanna watch pure bio micro and really insane 1:1:1? Watch puma, he dodges storm with starsense like a boss. Watch MMA, watch clide. Watch jjakji. Mvp's style of playing is really not for everyone.

Another player that I can tell you terran players to look out for is oGs_Fin. I don't know why people are downgrading him and calling him oGs_*** for cheesing nshoseo_sage out of code A. He has really good micro and if he can capitalise on that and beat you early game, I don't see what's wrong. You want a macro game with him? Beat his 'cheese' aka super early aggression first.

0.02 dollars from MrFool

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[SuperHero]

What i have found when going up against a max protoss army is that you cannot ball up your bio and stim a+move otherwise the first few collosus shots and storms are going to do so much damage that you will lose.

you have to get a good concave. spread your units out and keep pulling back and back and back to dodge storms and colossus.

with vikings against the colossus and emp against high templar your concave should beat the protoss death-ball.

also remember to drop drop drop drop drop constantly. not only does it weaken the protoss re-enforcements but if you manage to get 8 marines and a medivac into the infrastructure of the protoss when their army is out of position or engaged with your army then you can do so much damage to their economy and macro that you will be ahead even if your army doesnt do well in the major battle.

[xGKingdelete]

in the super late game, both protoss and terran armies have the potential to kill the other entire army without many losses. i find that most of it comes down to positioning. if you attack into his concave, he's going to destroy you, and similarly, if you set up your own concave and he attacks into it, you are going to destroy him. so if it's a 200 supply vs 200 supply situation and your opponent has cut the map in half with his army, you don't have to attack into it. maybe you can do a drop. what can he do about it? at 200/200 there aren't any warp ins to defend. he has to pull his army back to defend, and maybe you can get your own army into a better position after that.

as for the actual engagements themselves, there's the obvious thing to avoid all chokes and get as much surface area and the best concave possible. Before engagements, you want to scan and pick off any observers over your army. it makes it a lot harder for the protoss to prepare for your ghosts. the ghosts should go in first, cloaked if you researched it, and emp the whole army/snipe templar.

bio + vikings vs gateway + collosus is complicated. if you can get the bio against the gateway units and the vikings against the collosus, you've won. if you get the vikings against stalkers and your bio against zealots with collosus behind them, you've lost. you need to kite as much as possible. take as little amount of damage from the collosus and the zealots as possible. If the zealots are right on top of your army, and most of the collosus are attacking, you're too close. If you kite, the collosus are going to chase your army, bringing them out of position and your vikings can go in and clean them up. The way you need to handle the engagement is going to vary each game, but you'll be wanting to kite in pretty much every situation.

Also a trick you can do is to have your vikings over deadspace or impassable terrain, so the stalkers can't blink under them. it's probably the most annoying thing ever.