[maximusPrime]

Now before every Zerg player on the forums comes on here and rages at me about how they are so underpowered I am going to acknowledge that yes there are issues with close positions spawns on metalopolis, shattered temple and others. I think that blizzard really need to do something about this very soon because it's just a joke. What pisses me off though is when Zerg rage at the end of the game about my FF's or colossi or generally anything that they choose.

I don't like to stereotype all Zerg players as whingers but I find that they seem to complain more than other races. I have met plenty of really well mannered players and the majority of them probably are. So what I really want to know is why do Zerg rage more than other races?

My most common encounter is the old "Oh I play protoss I'm just going to build colossi, A+move and win the game because I'm a nub." Seriously I hate playing zerg, it's probably my worst MA and then if I do win I will often cop 5 minutes of BM after the game. If Zerg is so underpowered and so hard to play why don't you change races?

[Paroxysm]

If you want an honest opinion here's mine... I play zerg, and yes, there are times where it is incredibly frustrating (mainly against terran..) to try and improve at Starcraft. Many people however, find that the best way to make up for their inability to win is to abuse the person who beat them.

One of the reasons they rage more than other races is because compared to Protoss and Terran, Zerg is an incredibly different playstyle and it is much harder to learn at a competitive skill level. Ultimately, yes, Protoss and Terran are overpowered in SOME ways because of the slightly easier mechanics, but in the end, the Zerg players chose to play Zerg. If they cannot handle the hardships of playing their race then perhaps they should not be playing it, as it clearly isnt for them. Realistically, they should aim to play for fun and to improve rather than to win (not that most people in SC2 don't need a chill pill anyways...)

Paroxysm

[Zanderax]

I'd like to point out that you are complaining about people complaining, and you get pissed off when people complain in game, god knows you piss everyone off by complaining here.

[nextbigthing]

to me i dun understand how come zerg players rage abt em, after the patch which solve reapers problems and the increase warpgate timing, i find tt zerg is rather easy alrdy... as long as they are nt greedy and dun power drones up too early, work on BASIC defence 1st, they shld be alrite after early game and shld win if they survive past the middle game mark... In fact, as a terran, i find tt we need more micro skills, because we dun heal ourselves unless dere r medivex or scvs, plus without gd positioning, we can nv win a zerg and protoss( nt saying other races dun nid gd positioning skills)...

Another thing is, broodlords to buy broodlings but carriers need to buy inceptors... zerg can juz get ard 6-7 inceptors to get a their broodlords going solidly... even if there r vikings to counter em, we hav to go tru those inceptors or we will die and only 1-3 broodmothers r dead... dun talk abt marines because the zerg will juz push tgt wif their massive land forces, forcing terran to micro their marines hard esp against those banelings...

honestly, i personally find protoss the strongest and easiest race, but wadever it is, i always respect blizzard's creation of the game... Had alrdy thought of a few ways which could allow me to win protoss... so guys, no race is imba... juz take the time to thk through rather thn raging and u will be a better player, glhf guys!

[nextbigthing]

Originally Posted by nextbigthing

to me i dun understand how come zerg players rage abt em, after the patch which solve reapers problems and the increase warpgate timing, i find tt zerg is rather easy alrdy... as long as they are nt greedy and dun power drones up too early, work on BASIC defence 1st, they shld be alrite after early game and shld win if they survive past the middle game mark... In fact, as a terran, i find tt we need more micro skills, because we dun heal ourselves unless dere r medivex or scvs, plus without gd positioning, we can nv win a zerg and protoss( nt saying other races dun nid gd positioning skills)...

Another thing is, broodlords to buy broodlings but carriers need to buy inceptors... zerg can juz get ard 6-7 inceptors to get a their broodlords going solidly... even if there r vikings to counter em, we hav to go tru those inceptors or we will die and only 1-3 broodmothers r dead... dun talk abt marines because the zerg will juz push tgt wif their massive land forces, forcing terran to micro their marines hard esp against those banelings...

honestly, i personally find protoss the strongest and easiest race, but wadever it is, i always respect blizzard's creation of the game... Had alrdy thought of a few ways which could allow me to win protoss... so guys, no race is imba... juz take the time to thk through rather thn raging and u will be a better player, glhf guys!

oh, and a addition to my saying of the BASIC defence... no terran can win a zerg without continual harrassing of em... so, if zerg could defend against those early hellions or a drop, the zerg would be far ahead alrdy...

[matthras]

Originally Posted by maximusPrime

If Zerg is so underpowered and so hard to play why don't you change races?

Because we're masochists.

I'm kidding, but if you found P underpowered and someone said the same thing to you, you'd probably argue that playing P just feels natural to you and can't get used to the mechanics of the other two races. At least, that's what I would say - playing Zerg just feels so much more natural to me.

That aside, I guess I'll try and list a couple of reasons.

- Incredibly easy to deny early game scouting in ZvT (and to some extent, ZvP for the inexperienced Z), so Z can either guess or go overboard in trying to prepare for every possible situation. Additionally, Zergs can't wall off their ramp.

- Lack of engagement control, usually in early game (basically due to FFs and Siege Tanks) - and naturally the problem is exacerbated on maps such as Typhon Peaks where there's enough areas to abuse.

- Zerg's AoE options are the Baneling (which is basically one use, and if sniped from a distance, is made utterly useless) and the Infestor (fragile spellcaster), whereas T and P have much more solid and straightforward AoE options which they don't have to worry so much about (Siege Tank, Collosi)

- Some Zs may argue that their only 'strong' unit options are Ultras and Broodlords, both of which require a tech path much longer than T or P's viable top tier options (think about it, it's a lot easier to get Thors or Collosi out than it is to get Ultras and Broodlords).

- Zerg's 'macro' option (i.e. the Queen, as opposed to the T's MULE and the P's Chronoboost) is a lot more important for Zerg users.

Hopefully that's sufficient for an unbiased list of options :P (though I'm happy to discuss/take back any points if you can argue otherwise) Essentially, though, the learning curve for Zerg is definitely a lot more steeper than T or P so that's probably why you'll get a lot of raging Zergs since they have to learn so much more about the game in order to be competitive players.

[Duck]

Zerg is underpowered until you can consistently inject larvae, remax.

[SLCN.Kez]

Yeah i play zerg and do have the habit of raging sometimes when it felt like I couldnt have done much better and still got trampled. One case of this was on xel naga caverns, i scouted im at 5 30 and he had a twilight and 3 gates and a decently late 2nd gas so i massed speed lings getting ready for blink stalkers, then after a minute or so i see no stalkers so i get ready for dts by gettin spores and going to lair, then after another minute or so when no dt's come i say wtf he must be expanding, then about 30 seconds later 3-4 archons and a ton of zealots come into my base and kill me because i had to stop makin drones a while ago and get ready for a whole ton of things that could have come out of one tech tree, but if i didnt prepare accordingly for each of the first individual steps i would have lost to them. Was very annoying.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by matthras

- Zerg's AoE options are the Baneling (which is basically one use, and if sniped from a distance, is made utterly useless) and the Infestor (fragile spellcaster), whereas T and P have much more solid and straightforward AoE options which they don't have to worry so much about (Siege Tank, Collosi)

Just going to point out: siege tanks are almost worthless in TvZ when unsieged. The siege animation does take time. So a T army having to stagger tanks forwards is incredibly immobile.

- Some Zs may argue that their only 'strong' unit options are Ultras and Broodlords, both of which require a tech path much longer than T or P's viable top tier options (think about it, it's a lot easier to get Thors or Collosi out than it is to get Ultras and Broodlords).

T and P can't just build a robo + support bay, or factory + armory and immediately start producing 10 thors or 10 collossi at a time. I haven't looked at any timings, but there would be a point where it's actually much easier for Z to get a certain number of these units than a T or P to get the equivalent units.

[AvPoker]

We aint complaining.

[cruxis]

Originally Posted by nextbigthing

In fact, as a terran, i find tt we need more micro skills, because we dun heal ourselves unless dere r medivex or scvs, plus without gd positioning, we can nv win a zerg and protoss( nt saying other races dun nid gd positioning skills)...

No way.

Inject
Creep spread
Ling positioning
Baneling hits
Muta harass

[ZergGirl]

Most ZvX losses are insanely frustrating. I complain to myself mostly though xD

[matthras]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

T and P can't just build a robo + support bay, or factory + armory and immediately start producing 10 thors or 10 collossi at a time. I haven't looked at any timings, but there would be a point where it's actually much easier for Z to get a certain number of these units than a T or P to get the equivalent units.

That point, as I see it, is in the late game where the Zerg has a very established economy. I can't imagine any part in the midgame for a Zerg rushing to Hive tech units without being killed during the transition or being out macro'd (which is a difficult situation for most inexperienced Zerg players).
You're right that they can't just throw down the buildings and expect to build units, but Collosi/Thors are easier to transition into (due to the pre-req buildings being useful enough: e.g. Robo for Observers, Factory for Siege Tanks/Starport) than it is for a Zerg player to get Ultras/Broodlords.

I guess what I mean to say is that typically a T and P can get Thors/Collosi out earlier than a Z can get Ultras/Broodlords out. However I'm not sure if comparing Ultras/Broodlords to Thors/Collosi is exactly viable - one could argue that Ultra/Broodlords have much more to them than Thors/Collosi do to T/P which would result in the necessary extended tech path.

You're right about the Siege Tanks, though. I overlooked that.

[maximusPrime]

Originally Posted by Zanderax

I'd like to point out that you are complaining about people complaining, and you get pissed off when people complain in game, god knows you piss everyone off by complaining here.

So you are saying you enjoy BM? If you actually read my post properly you will see that I am actually asking a question as to why it is that Zerg complain more than other races. My complaint isn't directed solely at Zerg players but more towards people who BM, which in my own experience is more regularly found in players who play Zerg.

Originally Posted by matthras

- Lack of engagement control, usually in early game (basically due to FFs and Siege Tanks) - and naturally the problem is exacerbated on maps such as Typhon Peaks where there's enough areas to abuse.

I can't speak on behalf of Terran players but in PvZ if the protoss doesn't have FF's early in the game it is just too easy for the zerg to overwhelm them with the sheer amount of unit they have.

Originally Posted by matthras

- Zerg's AoE options are the Baneling (which is basically one use, and if sniped from a distance, is made utterly useless) and the Infestor (fragile spellcaster), whereas T and P have much more solid and straightforward AoE options which they don't have to worry so much about (Siege Tank, Collosi)

Yeah I definitely agree that zerg AoE is a much more difficult to micro (as are a lot of your units) but I think if done correctly they can be so much more effective than Protoss and Terran AoE. Infestors are a great unit and I have terrible trouble with them, some well placed fungal growths and some neural parasites and my army is destroyed with little damage done to theirs at all. I also think baneling drops need to be used more in PvZ.

Originally Posted by matthras

- Some Zs may argue that their only 'strong' unit options are Ultras and Broodlords, both of which require a tech path much longer than T or P's viable top tier options (think about it, it's a lot easier to get Thors or Collosi out than it is to get Ultras and Broodlords).

Yes Z's tech tree is a whole lot more difficult to reach your top tier units which must be frustrating I'm sure. When you do get their though it almost always means the end of thee game for the other player (from my experience anyway). The speed and numbers in which you can build broodlords and ultra's is incredible, provided you have the cash.

Originally Posted by matthras

- Zerg's 'macro' option (i.e. the Queen, as opposed to the T's MULE and the P's Chronoboost) is a lot more important for Zerg users.

Yeah no arguments there

[Yonge]

I used to play zerg and boy...its a love/hate relationship! There's definitely more highs and lows when playing zerg, but i think that's actually what made it more fun!

Pretty much ppl have said above makes sense in terms of scouting and being able to use those end game units. I think most of the time ppl rage more because they don't really play to suit the strengths of zerg. even things like scouting using early ovies, injecting so you can quick drones/defenses/reinforcements and most importantly fast units for map control. It's true that with P or T, it might be easier to win off one base in relation to zerg, but man, being able to expand like crazy then send wave after wave of units is the way the zerg play best!

that being said...i play terran now...:P can't take the swings of the mighty swarm!

[Satu]

Imo, when you are learning to play zerg, you will lose a lot to random timings. It takes quite a few losses to actually work out how to react to all of them, as well as learning how to properly macro on top of that. So it makes perfect sense that a lot of zerg players that don't understand that they should be losing complain.

Time is better spent refining your play than complaining though, it usually isn't races being OP/UP, but rather the user not playing properly.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	knot a bad point
	TAhackdZ:	You said it Zergy :D
	Sturok:

[AlphaWhale]

Pretty sure everybody else is having a temper tantrum about infestors and baneling drops right now.

Quick Comments

ZergGirl:

[Meatex]

I hate the attitude of no skill terrans and protoss who say things like just switch race.
Sure why don't when you have the slightest difficulty with your gf why don't you just dump her and get a new one
Most zerg have invested a lot of time into their race, maybe we love the feel of the race/playstyle or asthetics. Why should we have to switch to a race we like less in order to enjoy fair games?

Close spawn is a joke but unfortunately despite it being universally accepted that its imbalanced blizzard have they they want to continue having such spawns in their maps for, what they say, the casual players. When in fact they just want to cater to the retards who want to have 5 minute cheese games all the time but in fact blizzard are just retarded.

The reason that zerg rage so much is many. Like winning often comes down to guessing. Or that zerg is punished irreparably for the slightest mistake. 2 seconds late on that inject and you will die. Zeerg units are all made of paper and second late reaction or ever so slight mis click and they all die and we lose. Positioning is most important to a zerg army, we don't get to slowly leap frog tanks or keep all our units in a ball and mindlessly walk around.We have glaring holes in our army like piss poor clutch defense, and no cliff jumping units to scout or get around the infinite ramp FF bs

Playing zerg is like dating a hot woman who is amazing in bed but the second you don't do something right, in the right order, the absolute second its needed in the exact right position she will knee you in the balls and chuck you off the bed and tell you to try harder next time.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

For the final paragraph. My god, that was a good laugh

[PiG]

I would like to share some personal experiences of mine that I hope are enlightening.

I rage ALOT as a zerg player. I try to mostly keep it to myself but occassionally it does spill out. I do try to apologise if I run into the same player soon afterwards (usually :P).

However the last few days I've been playing some Terran against alot of GM's (including top 20). I hadn't played terran in MONTHS not even for fun, and even when I did have T as my main I was crap, like BETA crap! So anyway within 2 days and maybe 30-40 games I was having even games with pretty damn highly ranked players and it felt awesome just doing crap without even really knowing a build I found the reactor/techlab swaps aswell as applying continual aggression allowed me to just adlib my builds and do incredibly well for such an inexperienced T player. I started getting really confident and strong and was like wtf why isn't zerg this easy, T is OP!

Then I thought about it and realised that Terran is such an aggressive race in ALL matchups (yes including TvT) that you can somewhat dictate the pace of the game. So as Terran players often are the ones that choose the deciding battles in a game, they tend to own their mistakes much more readily. For instance watching my brother playing a tvz seiging his tanks in a bad spot will immediately know it's his own mistake and own it and try to not do it again. However when he's playing TvP and the protoss gets in his face with 1-6 gate aggression he gets really pissed off, feels helpless and rages a bit. This actually led to him doing a tank build as his main in TvP! A build which by now most of us know is suicide against chargelots!

OK so what I'm trying to say here is that it tends to be the defensive player that rages when they lose! In general Zerg players play more defensive and are so macro focused or feel so pressured in a game that they feel it isn't really their fault when they engage a protoss army from 1 angle and are completely encircles in FF, OR when they charge in a clumpy line at a seige tank column instead of coming from 3 sides!

Zerg players are often so focused on defending a set timing and having a build to counter what they see coming from their opponent. Now at the lower levels sure a silver league player probably won';t have an eact build for say, countering 8 rax stim bio pushes. However he will probably know to grab a macro hatch and mass ling/bane. Now when the opponent engages and the Z doesn't micro and loses barely despite in his eyes being "prepared" he often RAGES.

I myself rarely use roaches right at the beginning of ZvP, but when I did last night against Light and his 5 gate crushed me despite having a good number of roaches I RAGED (more at the matchup then him but still...). I realised soon afterwards that just cos I often skip early roaches doesn't mean having them should automatically defeat any aggression. I realised I should just always have a spine or two to help out... and calmed teh F down!

But unfortunately most players probably don't have as much game knowledge as me and would skip the last step of realising what they did wrong and instead their defensive zergy mindset would cause them to feel justified in an endless tirade of RAGE!

So on behalf of all my zerg brethren, I apologize for our unwarranted rage!

As for you zergies still raging CALM DOWN and remember you could be playing ALOT better. In TvZ if you're sick of tanks getting ridiculous pushes on you on maps like xel naga that are pretty much tank-heavens then remember to counterattack! Those tanks are immobile abuse the hell out of it. For the ones that rage on protoss! JUST NEVER let a toss near your ramp to FF it, and NEVER FIGHT IN A CHOKE ALWAYS FIGHT IN THE OPEN!!

I hope this helps peoples understanding of why zerg are such ragers!

Quick Comments

	|Erasmus|:	So true.
	ToRDeathsFang:	OMFG, what is it with Zergs writing all these essays!
	Volition:	is the moral of the story "be an agressive cheeser and you will never rage?"
	nirvAnA:	deathsfang stop +ve posts because they are long and you didnt read them! only i can do that! lmao
	Sturok:	zerg padawan herezz good advice

[Yonge]

Originally Posted by Meatex

Close spawn is a joke but unfortunately despite it being universally accepted that its imbalanced blizzard have they they want to continue having such spawns in their maps for, what they say, the casual players. When in fact they just want to cater to the retards who want to have 5 minute cheese games all the time but in fact blizzard are just retarded.

Indeed! Amen brudder! can't say I'm not hoping that Blizzard would catch onto the interesting things in tournament maps such as making them much bigger (to push the macro play, something that makes all zerg lick their ummm do zerg have lips?) and also fake supply depots to not allow people walling in zerg players.

Originally Posted by Meatex

Playing zerg is like dating a hot woman who is amazing in bed but the second you don't do something right, in the right order, the absolute second its needed in the exact right position she will knee you in the balls and chuck you off the bed and tell you to try harder next time.

LMAO!