[thsteal]

Ive just come back to sc2 and I'm having a heap of trouble with zerg. I feel as though i need to be ALWAYS attacking and keeping them from taking bases. but at such a low league it feels impossible to macro and micro.

I currently have no trouble vs roaches. but baneling busts are near impossible for me to hold and mid game ling/infester/bling. I usually end up gging before broods so I know that's a whole other kettle of fish I'll need to deal with.

I feel the main reason I lose is because I barely make tanks. I prefer marine based play so if you could give me some tips to help with my playstyle that would be great too

[ETL.ViTaL]

you pretty much need to make a big push at some point against the zerg to stop them taking a fourth base and doing harassment with drops. You NEED to make tanks against bannelings especially at a lower league as you probably aren't that good at marine splits.When they make brood lords just make heaps of vikings with a few thors. If you do want to play a marine only make sure you drop heaps and add marauders in pushing before he gets hive.

[Bloodmyst]

A replay would be good. But if you are going pure bio against zerg, you need to know that this is a VERY difficult style to play. When playing this style I feel the 4 most important things are;

- Make sure you are always walled in.
- You need to be super aggressive with drops and try to make them as cost effective as possible.
- Get marauders, and use them to tank bane damage. Split your marines behind them and target firing the banes.
- Keep on top of your upgrades.

I have a replay here against a Diamond Zerg. But I recommend watching it just to see how strong drops really are.

http://drop.sc/197595

I also recommend this guide from TL. Hopefully this may help;

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=344554

[RicocheT]

Bio based play is extremely hard. You have to have good macro and awesome micro for it to be cost effective. Things such as fungal can absolutely rip through marines, so the key is to have a lot of medivacs.

The key with bio is multiprong pressure, drop in the main or natural while you put pressure in another place. Keep macroing, and if you play the style right you should constantly be trading efficiently, constantly putting pressure on the zerg.

Bio is also extremely hard to hold a roach/bane/ling bust because you lack tanks. The key is to scout it and have lots of bunkers.

[faithHunter]

Like what a couple of people above me already said, bio based play against Zerg is very hard, especially in lower leagues, because you have to:

1. Constantly harass and attack. (Drop everywhere, attack everywhere at the same time. i.e. Multi pronged drops or attacks with bio units.)
2. Constantly replace your lost units AND making sure that you can always replenish your lost harassment units.
3. Micro like hell.

If your micro isn't up for the task yet, I suggest trying out mech in TvZ. A maxed out mech ball vs Zerg is nearly unstoppable as long as you have the units that counter the tech that the Zerg is going for (i.e. Vikings for Broods, Tanks or Thors for Ultras)

TL, DR: Bio only works in TvZ if you are MarineKingPrime; might want to try mech

[AsylumofSouls]

From what I saw of your games last night, you didn't harass your zerg opponents enough in the early and mid game.
Your macro is great for BSG level for the most part and if you add in some drops and work on your scouting, you'll be fine.
Just don't let your opponents get to late game. Once they got their infestor/ultra armies up, you were in trouble.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

It is now impossible for terran to stop zerg getting into late game without an all-in

[Shieldz]

i think u need to do more drops

[RVLiveR]

As a zerg, I will list the things that annoy me the most.

1. Denying creep
This really annoys me (and most other zergs). Dropping a scan to kill old tumors is always worth it, and this doesn't only have to be during the 4-hellion time period. Even when pushing, just pick off a couple tumors. Fun fact: while speedlings are on creep, they can surround anything, even hellions. When they are off creep, hellions and speedlings are the same speed, so you can get away with your hellions.
2. Drops
It doesn't have to be as often as MMA does his drops, but dropping to the main might just get you a tech building kill (greater spires take especially long to rebuild), and stimmed marines have high dps and kill drones really really fast. I've seen people try to distract a large portion of my army by dropping at my fourth/fifth to get a good siege position near another base, but people tell me thats heavy on multitasking.
3. A bit of other units in your army
3 Banshees with your marine/tank is hilariously annoying - sometimes add in a thor, or a couple marauders. It disrupts our balance and I think vanilla marine/tank is way too weak unsieged, mass marine is even weaker. Your OP post says that you like marine based styles, and that's OK as long as you have other units. I think you can cut a bit less on siege tanks if you get more marauders (as the people above me have suggested), but in general bio play revolves a lot more around drops and harassment, and that's very multitask intensive.
4. Pre split army + sieged up tanks in high ground
In general, when I see this get near a base, I sack it instantly. It's not generally possible to kill this kind of army unless you get some epic flank or you have a huge advantage of some sort (he doesn't know you have broodlords, his army was recently destroyed, etc. etc.). Also, when you do this, be careful of counterattacks.
5. Denying my fourth
I honestly have no idea why this isn't no. 1 on the list, this by far enrages me the most (some zergs live with it, I dont know how). 3 Base is strong and all, but especially when I go for infestors, there simply isn't enough gas saturation to actually make a good number of them. If I can't get a 4th up, I'll basically be on like, 5 infestors, when terran maxes out.

Honestly, a replay will give you a LOT better advice because people can point out your flaws in terms of misunderstandings of a matchup. Sometimes, I see people lose because they miss a small part of a matchup, like not building spines around a base, or building too many orbitals/not enough planetaries.

[TN.Fitz]

You do this: Two Rax

[Hijung]

Focus on an overall game plan, and play accordingly. Ex; my ZvP consists of 'I want to get to three mining bases + a macro hatch and two evolution chambers before my lair finishes. I want to drone up until 40 and get x3 gas. I want a Roach Warren and double evo when lair is developing, and I want to get three queens with active queen spread'

So, you're tvz should consist of 'I want to do x, x and x and I have to do X to do this, while also denying his x, how I'm going to do this is..'... Is by copying a pro players build and learning from it. I fully suggest watching Select's play to try and get an overall sense of what to do. Watch what he does, watch how he develops his overall 'style'..

I think the style of your play is more important than your unit composition. Once you learn to actively produce units, think of strategies as to how you can use them in more situations then simply killing your opponent.

[DarKcS]

Have you tried mech? I have lost countless times to inferior players 1Aing imba thor/hellion/tank balls at me.

Also don't worry to much about Zerg taking more bases. You can still win on 3v5, and I would put more importance on 'how will I hold my 3rd' than 'how will I deny his 4th/5th' ?
Unless you plan to harass or do a timing attack, anything regarding Zerg's 3rd is irrelevant.

[SmirkToT]

go the first scv to scout at 10(you pull two out at 10, one makes depot, one go to scout)
if 2-player map, use engeneering bay to block the hatch
this not only helps delay the hatch but also delays the queen production in the consequence of insant production delayed.
if 3-player map(Shakuras), you can pull scv a little earlier. (sometimes i pull at 10, but hatch still not put, usually 16 drones then hatch, block him anyway!)
if 4-player map, you can go 14CC then siege tank and play longer games, this won't help a lot, but at least it helps your mechanics and life should be various.

Dont feel guilty, as zerg players to some extends, always try to delay your orbitals(drone atks scvs building barrack). Those guys are the ones who complained all ins and like to all in these days.


The next is to consider what zerg follows up.
Usually bad players are only good in one build (metagame makes them good in this.), they probably begin to harvest gas and transit into banelings all in.
In this case, my response is to wall in with two rax in the low ground and also place a bunker in high ground, when you think you are safe, fly the 2nd orbital into natrual.(Siege tanks>banelings/Banshee>Roaches)
Then a normal game with a bit advantage.

However, its just a few tips. Won't help you win instantly and dont expect to win against really good players.
and Aeth's tips are really useful too. consider it!


http://drop.sc/replays?utf8=%E2%9C%9...=Apply+filters


http://drop.sc/replays?utf8=%E2%9C%9...=Apply+filters

[breadfan]

Play really really greedy, and just try to match zerg's ridiculous ability to produce units. Scouting becomes pretty key thanks to zerg's ability to just decide "now I attack!". Maybe a fast viking and lots of early drops will encourage muta play which at least gives you some influence on the zerg's tech path. Stay off creep and be patient.

Then if you find a real solution, please tell every other terrans out there :P

EDIT: Maybe watch Hack vs LosirA from Code A tonight

[Mox]

Originally Posted by breadfan

EDIT: Maybe watch Hack vs LosirA from Code A tonight

I see what you're getting at here, but LosirA's style is pretty unique. He prefers the mass ling/bane style with minimal tech, as per the first game.

As for how to deal with Zerg, its a really tough spot at the moment. As has been pointed out in this thread, you either have to go for an all-in to avoid getting to the lategame. Alternatively, you have to try to play really really REALLY greedy.

I think at some point Terran's will find timings to exploit the new zerg builds, but that will be down the track some point.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

I was more pointing out just how easily Hack seemed to dismantle a zerg in the current state of the mu

[lTIaster]

Drop plays can really help you get back into a game and help you secure a win. Multi-prong attacks also work very well.