Before i start my rant, i know zerg isn't totally impossible but i just feel that its a race that leans on the OP side and needs to be discussed.
Zerg is legit a pain to verse, everytime i see a PvZ on ladder i cant help but cringe and feel a little fustrated already knowing theres a 94% chance i've lost this game. I try EVERYTHING. The immortal sentry, 1 base 4 gate +1, 1 base dt, 2 base blink +2 push even just standered macro, but nothing works. No matter how hard i dare try i just lose to lings early game, roaches mid game or both with festors and gg lords as well. Its not even the direct engagements thats a problem, the amout of harass/cheese/all in's zerg can do and get away with it is rediculous. For example, a zerg can 8 pool ZvP which is ment to be cheesy or all in (you decide what its considered) and they might not kill probes or kill a couple and lose all the lings but still be even with the protoss, cause the zerg can be an annoying nonsense for 2 mins or so delaying mining time as the zerg (if they are smart) can drone up get queens and even take a base and macro out of it, meanwhile the protoss is losing the probe/s and desperately getting a zealot/s.
Also theres the muta harass again in mainly PvZ this is a problem, cause muta is such an epic harass unit they can fly to your main and pick off probes and by the time your army gets there it takes 2 secs to get to the third or natural and harass some more, once again putting off the protoss's macro as he/she is focusing on getting rid of this muta problem.
Also theres the ling/bling all in vs T and can be vs protoss if FFE. The zerg can make so many blings and cause there splash damage is so huge and devastating they can tear through a terran wall or a ffe in 3 secs, then run in 30 lngs to clean the rest, and cause this is a mid game strategy play, the zerg can do this, be effecfive or semi effective and can still macro from it, "oh just go counter attack after the ling bling." REALLY? dude u have no army or little army after dealing with the 100 supply of ling/bling and you have to focus on getting your wall up again and to re produce a army.
So ling/bling vs T or P isn't really all in then, like it is all in but you can macro from it, if you go for a 4 gate PvP and it gets shut down, 9/10 times ur gonna lose cause that was all or nothing. Or proxy 2 rax, if that fails its hard to catch up with ur opponent.
Think about it this way, a terran can make 4 rax (early to mid game) and make marines come out 1 from each, after 90 secs you will have 4 marines (presuming the 4 rax and the marines came and completed at perfect time) with a zerg the queen can inject for 4 larva and takes about 30/40 secs to pop, then 27 secs to make 8 lings. This all up is 57 to 67 secs to get 8 lings to attack 4 marines.
With the later game stuff, broodlords and infestors are way too strong, whilst terran can make vikings to deal with broodlords and have some mech army to deal with this boring zerg trend, protoss struggles with it more, they need to somehow get the mothership get a PERFECT vortex get arcons in the vortex blink to pick off remainding broodlords and to split the army to advoid huge damage from the free broodlord units, all this work just for ONE UNIT, seriously... and its not like u snipe all the gg lords and your done, then theres infestors and roaches and the good old lings on the mix you gotta worry about, unless everything the protoss does is perfect (which is really hard) the protoss losses to the zergs a-move.
You cant deny that zerg is a really imba race and is the reason why some people are GM or masters in the first place. If i played zerg with the same skill level as i do with protoss i would be mid maybe high masters as zerg, not mid diamond.
I just sometimes wish there was some nurfs done to zerg in WoL, and its not like in HOTS its gonna get easier, all protoss really got were some new air units, but zerg will just counter that with the faster hydra. Now i know protoss and terran has there strong and maybe op units but everything zerg is op, espechially larva...
happy now "TheGentlemen" ??? i made it a blog not a thread just for you mate
btw no im not trolling or a bronze im serious on this issue, I NEED HELP TO FIGURE OUT VS ZERG D:
Zerg is overpowered, huh? Yeah, must be really difficult to warp in stalkers from a warp prism whilst keeping my army away from yours by using your walking terrain editors to stop any form of aggression.
zerg imba... nerf plz..
I love how his marine production v ling production includes the time to make a rax but not the time to make a spawning pool (his early-midgame argument). Those calculations seem legit
To say that "in HOTS its gonna get easier" is a bit silly imo - given that Protoss players (me included) won't have to fully "rely" on good vortices to actually win, namely in PvZ.
Tempest to help deal with Broodlords. Void Rays are phenomenally useful against roaches and the very popular Ultralisk. Moco to defend against early pressure whether through pure moco disco ball damage, or through the very powerful photon overcharge. Moco also helps mid/late with Time Warp. Oracles to do early game harassment, and also add some mobile detection along with "lol you're a light unit? You're dead unit now bitch" beam. Dark Templar can now be used in a slightly earlier timing if you want - meaning that possible DT damage can be done earlier or at more awkward times. The oldschool whitera dt/prism tactic can be used to much greater effect, given that instead of spending 250 gas on the shrine, you can spend 150, and get the robo for the prism down even faster. (hint, hint)
Don't give up on HOTS especially PvZ HOTS, because the future is bright. The future is orange
You put good points but it's not going to be as easy as you make it sound, it's still going to require skill and patience, but i do hope your right in saying there is hope in HOTS.
You put good points but it's not going to be as easy as you make it sound, it's still going to require skill and patience, but i do hope your right in saying there is hope in HOTS.
Go watch Whitera stream. He's doing some of the coolest play as a Protoss in HOTS I've seen so far. I feel like you haven't seen a single minute of HOTS if you currently think it's difficult for protoss in HOTS lol. Everyone is talking about how very very strong they are compared to WoL. Seriously, go watch some whitera. There is some on my channel or just watch his stream.
wouldnt making no mistakes mean playing perfectly? the fact that u say a zerg would win 100% of the time making no mistakes, vs a terran/toss who makes no mistakes implies that zerg is imbalanced.
Only professional players get to comment on balance issues.
Exactly this. Below this level, there are no balance issues, you just aren't playing well enough. If you have problems with one matchup, then you've just progressed in your other two faster. More pew pew less QQ.
Yeah as a zerg I can tell you if you are losing to zerg its because you allow them to win by not adapting, poor execution and / or poor macro.
For one a properly executed sentry immortal all in is the hardest thing in the game for zerg to stop even for pro players and they make far less mistakes than your opponents
Why don't you post replays and the high level zergs and toss here will give you some tips
Jokes, Zerg isn't overpowered. It's a matter of who outplays who, and how effective/efficient they do things. So if a Zerg player is more cost efficient, and outplays you, of course you'd lose unless you somehow manage to come back by being even more cost effective and outplay them very well. But if you're the one that's being ahead in macro, being more cost efficient and preparing for possible situations by scouting a lot, you'll dead set be able to win almost all the time so long as you're being on top of the game.
If they try to baneling bust, get sentries to block them off. If they get mutas, get blink stalkers and storm. If they just go some huge arse eff off ultra/brood/infestor (any of those combos), you can still beat it if you do things right with vortices and have the right unit composition by being prepared. I did think Zerg was OP at some point but I soon realized I lose because I just suck, and hell I've found out that I can beat them if I play right.
Don't think they're OP, play the game, if you win, hooray you did things right and props to you for being able to do so. If you lose, go look over it, see what you can do to make sure that doesn't happen next time. If you can't see what the hell went wrong go ask someone around here that knows Z and P very well. It's one of the reasons why we have a community, to help each other out.
___________________________________ NA | KR.
Known for a time as mGGCrayonPop and mGGxJieun
Q_Q'd.
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