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AxSGRiM · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 1:17 AM

I think a lot of the people that say you don't have a right to comment unless you are playing at a high level are correct. Zerg players at the high level really have mastered the race and I think RuineD's post sums it up. :/

s_todd · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 2:01 AM

Thanks to everyone for giving there opinion I was expecting all this random comments. However, to say cause I'm not a pro I can't discuss balance in a game? IMO that's the stupidest thing I have heard, there are way more casual players then pro's for a start my friends and I'm not QQ ing all in favor of Zerg op, I'm also trying to prove a point how Zerg can do many things and get away with it. Instead of ppl having a go at me then, how about giving some advice? Cause its easy to just put me down and get nothing done, and btw, pros wouldn't be pros if it wasn't for us casuals, so your welcome...

**TAEdgE** · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 2:16 AM

What they mean by only progamers can discuss balance is that 'imbalance' can only really be at a very high level, other than that it's the ease of the race and that's not imbalance, just design. Using a single 2 base build against zerg in say Platinum can be easy and have huge success but it does not make it
'imbalanced'

late edit: in your original post, you pointed out your personal experience of facing zerg, rather than quoting specific stats or recent games with blatant imbalance. This is why a lot of posts are shitting on you, rather than discussing a topic. The 'im casual' way of spiting others is quite unusual too, but im a fan of the passion for the game you have

Meatex · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 8:24 AM

There are plenty of suggestions and good advice for you mate and no casuals aren't allowed to comment on balance because all problems they face can be fixed with better macro and decision making

I could do the same thing and use my experience of playing zvp to say protoss in imbalanced due to sentry immortal all ins being really hard to stop

Instead of dismissing what people are telling you and claiming nobody is giving you advice when I read plenty of it. Why don't you fix your attitude, post in replay analysis thread and actually listen to players much MUCH better than you

Myth.ForbZ · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 9:42 AM

10/10 sc2sea-level blog.

SLCN.NXZ · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 11:18 AM

"Think about it this way, a terran can make 4 rax (early to mid game) and make marines come out 1 from each, after 90 secs you will have 4 marines (presuming the 4 rax and the marines came and completed at perfect time) with a zerg the queen can inject for 4 larva and takes about 30/40 secs to pop, then 27 secs to make 8 lings. This all up is 57 to 67 secs to get 8 lings to attack 4 marines."

That was painful, please don't.

Dealing with broodlord infestor is definitely possible.There armies for both races that can destroy broodlord infestor and I gaurentee I know players who could crush the guys your losing against. Which means that it's not imbalanced at that level, if someone can beat it. I could be a bronze player and lose to 6 pool every game and say its imba zerg shouldn't get units that early etc. Is 6 pool imbalanced? No, so stop complaining about it silly.

In the same way, your complaining about pvz because brood infestor IS TOO STRONG AND ZERG CAN ALL IN TOO. Watch as I do what you just did: Protoss 3 base timings are too hard, you can't stop them from taking a third then they just get some colossus and a maxed army and attack you before you get broods. What am I supposed to do, I've tryed making spines and using infestors but they just die to the protoss ball, I can't beat the protoss ball until I have broodlords but I can't have them out in time for this push. Oh yeah they can also cannon rush, do 8 gates, blinkstalker all in and immortal sentry all in. Not even to mention stargates. Overlords just die if the player doesn't suck so I can't scout. The match up is broken and zerg can't win. GG Blizzard.... Oh yeah I'm in diamond league.

If you want help, ask for help. If you want to complain about balance, realize you suck at the game and that there IS SO MUCH that you could do better. Once you've done that, refer to the first statement.

Oh and also,

"If i played zerg with the same skill level as i do with protoss i would be mid maybe high masters as zerg, not mid diamond."

Ummmm no, if you played zerg with the same skill you do protoss, you'd be mid diamond. Mid master players are better than you, the reason your losing is not because of balance but because you think your some sort of god and way better than your rank. Again, you have to realize you suck and until you stop sucking you have no right to complain about imbalance.

Finally let me reiterate the mothership from zerg point of view. I have to split my broodlords perfectly. SPLIT. BROOD. LORDS. Yes you read that right the unit that takes a light year to get from my my base to his. If that's not enough I have to make sure I keep overseers over every portion of my army so I dont lose detection, have my infestors split do they don't just vortex those instead. On top of that I also got to use my broodlords to focus down high templar otherwise he'll feedback all my infestors to death. Oh and protoss is probably warping in units at your main and 5th at the same time you're fighting him. All he has too is a move his ball, vortex twice and feedback/storm everywhere.

Sorry if I came off harsh but until you realize that the problem isn't the game but you, you will never improve.

s_todd · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 2:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aLtNXZ

"Think about it this way, a terran can make 4 rax (early to mid game) and make marines come out 1 from each, after 90 secs you will have 4 marines (presuming the 4 rax and the marines came and completed at perfect time) with a zerg the queen can inject for 4 larva and takes about 30/40 secs to pop, then 27 secs to make 8 lings. This all up is 57 to 67 secs to get 8 lings to attack 4 marines."

That was painful, please don't.

Dealing with broodlord infestor is definitely possible.There armies for both races that can destroy broodlord infestor and I gaurentee I know players who could crush the guys your losing against. Which means that it's not imbalanced at that level, if someone can beat it. I could be a bronze player and lose to 6 pool every game and say its imba zerg shouldn't get units that early etc. Is 6 pool imbalanced? No, so stop complaining about it silly.

In the same way, your complaining about pvz because brood infestor IS TOO STRONG AND ZERG CAN ALL IN TOO. Watch as I do what you just did: Protoss 3 base timings are too hard, you can't stop them from taking a third then they just get some colossus and a maxed army and attack you before you get broods. What am I supposed to do, I've tryed making spines and using infestors but they just die to the protoss ball, I can't beat the protoss ball until I have broodlords but I can't have them out in time for this push. Oh yeah they can also cannon rush, do 8 gates, blinkstalker all in and immortal sentry all in. Not even to mention stargates. Overlords just die if the player doesn't suck so I can't scout. The match up is broken and zerg can't win. GG Blizzard.... Oh yeah I'm in diamond league.

If you want help, ask for help. If you want to complain about balance, realize you suck at the game and that there IS SO MUCH that you could do better. Once you've done that, refer to the first statement.

Oh and also,

"If i played zerg with the same skill level as i do with protoss i would be mid maybe high masters as zerg, not mid diamond."

Ummmm no, if you played zerg with the same skill you do protoss, you'd be mid diamond. Mid master players are better than you, the reason your losing is not because of balance but because you think your some sort of god and way better than your rank. Again, you have to realize you suck and until you stop sucking you have no right to complain about imbalance.

Finally let me reiterate the mothership from zerg point of view. I have to split my broodlords perfectly. SPLIT. BROOD. LORDS. Yes you read that right the unit that takes a light year to get from my my base to his. If that's not enough I have to make sure I keep overseers over every portion of my army so I dont lose detection, have my infestors split do they don't just vortex those instead. On top of that I also got to use my broodlords to focus down high templar otherwise he'll feedback all my infestors to death. Oh and protoss is probably warping in units at your main and 5th at the same time you're fighting him. All he has too is a move his ball, vortex twice and feedback/storm everywhere.

Sorry if I came off harsh but until you realize that the problem isn't the game but you, you will never improve.

Ok, first of all im sorry for having a opinion but i feel that i paid 60 bucks for this game and all im doing is voicing a opinion, im not demamding for blizzard to jump out of there seats for some scrub diamond player. I know i suck, in fact, i wouldn't be supprised if i was the worst diamond player in all of sea, and maybe zerg isnt imba maybe i am just bad, i mean, every protoss you meet thinks PvZ is a hard match up but idk maybe its just me. You have your points about zerg having to do this and that, splitting broodlords etc... but i truely believe PvZ and PvT is difficult. It's not like im the only one thinking zerg is a bit on the op side millions of protoss players can agree with me ling roach all in is silly and btw, the counter to senty immortal all in, all you need to do is catch them and surround them in open space, done,simple, just have ur ling control the watch tower/s and when you see him push out you get ready, if you want me to however send replays of my PvZ play i will be HAPPY to, but you need to point out negatives for me, don't just say, oh you lost that engage cause you suck, cause i know i suck i wanna know why i suck, is it macro? micro? the engage in itself? the unit compo? the positioning? was i zealot heavy stalker heavy? i hate to sound like a dick but i feel its way to easy to just say i suck at this game and i cant have a opinion cause i suck etc... but non the less, lets be adults here, i will share replays of my PvZ's and for anyone thats interested can check them out.

ProAnnn · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_todd

Ok, first of all im sorry for having a opinion but i feel that i paid 60 bucks for this game and all im doing is voicing a opinion, im not demamding for blizzard to jump out of there seats for some scrub diamond player. I know i suck, in fact, i wouldn't be supprised if i was the worst diamond player in all of sea, and maybe zerg isnt imba maybe i am just bad, i mean, every protoss you meet thinks PvZ is a hard match up but idk maybe its just me. You have your points about zerg having to do this and that, splitting broodlords etc... but i truely believe PvZ and PvT is difficult. It's not like im the only one thinking zerg is a bit on the op side millions of protoss players can agree with me ling roach all in is silly and btw, the counter to senty immortal all in, all you need to do is catch them and surround them in open space, done,simple, just have ur ling control the watch tower/s and when you see him push out you get ready, if you want me to however send replays of my PvZ play i will be HAPPY to, but you need to point out negatives for me, don't just say, oh you lost that engage cause you suck, cause i know i suck i wanna know why i suck, is it macro? micro? the engage in itself? the unit compo? the positioning? was i zealot heavy stalker heavy? i hate to sound like a dick but i feel its way to easy to just say i suck at this game and i cant have a opinion cause i suck etc... but non the less, lets be adults here, i will share replays of my PvZ's and for anyone thats interested can check them out.

Yeah. Share your replay of your immortal allin, i will tell you what is your mistake. I bet you are not doing 100% accurate with your build orders, missing chronos, getting supply block. If you are not moving out of your base with 3 immortals 6 sentries 1 stalker before 9.20, there ishat thing wrong with your immortal allin. Also that roach ling allin is extremely easy to block.

Roach ling allin is 2 base or 3 base? If you scout the zerg is on 2 base, make a minimum of 2 cannons and at least chrono 1 sentry out. If you scout the zerg on 3 base, roach ling will be slightly later, if your BO tends to build the first zealot, send the zealot across to scout his 3rd base to ensure that he didnt cancel it. Once you scout the cancel, full walloff + 3 more cannons will hold it ezpz(chrono out sentry for easier holds).

s_todd · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DM.MCZ.ProAnnn

Yeah. Share your replay of your immortal allin, i will tell you what is your mistake. I bet you are not doing 100% accurate with your build orders, missing chronos, getting supply block. If you are not moving out of your base with 3 immortals 6 sentries 1 stalker before 9.20, there ishat thing wrong with your immortal allin. Also that roach ling allin is extremely easy to block.

Roach ling allin is 2 base or 3 base? If you scout the zerg is on 2 base, make a minimum of 2 cannons and at least chrono 1 sentry out. If you scout the zerg on 3 base, roach ling will be slightly later, if your BO tends to build the first zealot, send the zealot across to scout his 3rd base to ensure that he didnt cancel it. Once you scout the cancel, full walloff + 3 more cannons will hold it ezpz(chrono out sentry for easier holds).

http://drop.sc/295370
This is me about mid plat level at the btw (btw yes i know i should of gone forge nexus then gateway and or cannon)

http://drop.sc/295371
Once again about mid to high plat level, this guy was a diamond zerg btw

http://drop.sc/295374
This is a more recent game, i noticed a few mistakes, the major one (you will see it) is when the lings got in my base when i thought i held position with my zeal

syfChase · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 6:32 PM

Nurf larvae too op remoove from game pls blizz tyty

Duck so Australian with the Moco, love it

QEDbourkes · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 6:51 PM

This is why you should stop 4 gating at gold league and learn macro games, tell me how do you go late game againced protoss and terran?
lets have a look at your 10 last games.

1. 1 base dt vs zerg: Win
2. 4 gate vs terran: Loss
3. 4 gate vs toss: Loss
4. 4 gate vs toss: Win
5. 4 gate vs terran: Win
6. sentry immortal vs zerg: Loss
7. 4 gate vs toss: Loss
8. 4 gate vs terran: Win
9. sentry immortal vs zerg: Loss
10. 1 base dt vs zerg: Loss

I'm going to put this straight and simple, you 4 gated to diamond and don't have the macro or mechanical ability to play a longer game in diamond leauge.

You talk about zerg being imbalanced but yet you never play macro games vs terran or toss because hey, 4 gate still works. I'm also quite shocked that most diamond players still can't defend a 4 gate, what does that say to balance at your level? 4 gate op? maybe that would make a better discussion about how a gold level player can 4 gate too diamond wining nearly every pvp and pvt and dropping pvz

My suggestion is to bite the bullet, stop caring about winning or losing what league and rank you are, lose the 4 gate build and learn how to play mid and late game in all match ups, get back to diamond doing and you will find out that imbalance in any league below master is actually a fault in your mechanics, lack of game knowledge or the strategy not the game.

Bash · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bourkes

My suggestion is to bite the bullet, stop caring about winning or losing what league and rank you are, lose the 4 gate build and learn how to play mid and late game in all match ups, get back to diamond doing and you will find out that imbalance in any league below master is actually a fault in your mechanics, lack of game knowledge or the strategy not the game.

This is solid advice.

Just don't forget how to 4gate, it definitely has its place.

QEDbourkes · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

This is solid advice.

Just don't forget how to 4gate, it definitely has its place.

Use it only to mix up you game play when your playing in series (bo3/5's) or againced people you play alot,not on ladder as you can no longer learn anything by doing this build.

Scalaz · Wed, 16th-Jan-2013, 11:12 PM

NERF DRONE... I attacked Drone once with Probe. DRONE WIN EASY!!! BLIZZZARDDD PLEAAASSSSSSEEEE NERF DEM DRONES.. T.T