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**x5_Namakaye** · Tue, 10th-Jul-2012, 8:47 PM

I like double elimination better, gives the players a chance to redeem themselves if they just have a bad game when they aren't warmed up properly yet.

SLCN.Kez · Tue, 10th-Jul-2012, 9:23 PM

Can't you just do double elim but have a single series bo3? thats what we used to do in cs all the time, worked well. Or double elim bo3 into bo5 grand finals if you want. Whilst I wouldnt use single elim in something like ACL, for other big events such as GESC it wouldn't be that bad to use single elim or groups into groups into single elim ala dreamhack. It's nice to mix up for the format every now and then to keep things fresh!

Zealo · Tue, 10th-Jul-2012, 11:55 PM

the way i look at it, single elim is best if you're only giving out a first prize, double elim you can justify giving a prize for 2nd (can get away with giving out a prize for 3rd/4th without people complaining usually)

YurickHarmon · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 1:31 AM

I think that given that echelon of players who are just seperated from the rest of us who like to compete in the occasional tournament warrants some investigation into the swisse format as opposed to single elimination for larger tournaments. I think it works well from a player perspective as you can still have good games right up until the end of the tournament, even if you are performing badly (ie. with a wide skill spread its not uncommon in the last round to have two bronze players playing each other and having tight matches), and from the spectator perspective, the quality of play should improve with each round significantly (if my estimates are correct, at around the same rate as a single elim bracket). What's even better? It doesn't force players to wait around for a long time between their last winners bracket match for the loser's bracket to catch up (Which I do think, in some cases, can significantly affect the performance of both players).

Meatex · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 2:31 AM

Australian Go Association (board game like chess only insanely more complicated and yet simpler) used swisse round robin
Its a very good format when you either have not too many players or a fair amount of time.
The problem with swisse is that its a bitch to manage and alot more down time between rounds
It may be possible with smaller brackets at lans

**nirvAnA** · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 6:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UHF

Single vs Doube Elimination
There are benefits to single elimination, I think it can, and should be used when the time calls for it:

when you have a massive bracket
where the player skill range is really wide (a couple pros, a couple noobs, and spread of skill between)
when you tight on time/need to follow a strict schedule

That being said, the big problem with single elimination is seeding (particularly in SEA). Proper seeding based off skill level is used to ensure the best players make it deep into the tournament before they start knocking out the other best players. However, the skill level in SEA is pretty darn close at the top level. The fact our overall player pool really isn't that big, means you don't have the masses of lower tier players to bulk out a single elimination bracket to a level where the top tier players are far enough away from each other. Similarly, we really don't have a plethora of events for our pros to choose from - everyone is attending everything so the top skilled players are always condensed rather than diluted between multiple events.

I feel double elimination is nearly always going to be the common format in SEA. It's fair on our players, and when you don't have a huge player base or a large number of big money events, you really have to make sure the top players are both happy and all given a fair chance.

This is perfect

breadfan · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 11:45 AM

I love double elim as a spectator - I think that not only is it fun for me to watch, it's better for growth. I mean, in the SC2 scene you have emerging stars. People have their favourite players and their hopes to win. They want to see not just a bunch of games, but games of their favourite players. Double elim is a way to give them this opportunity. And I really love it as a spectator.

The only problem with the formats above is the final. I don't like the WB champ having a 2nd chance. Going into a championship game where one player has a big advantage over the other just isn't exciting. I think this advantage is just too big, and I don't feel that you necessarily remove all advantage from the WB champ by simply removing this. WB champs already the psychological advantage of being undefeated through the tournament, and has had to endure one less match. I think this is enough, and you don't need to tilt things further in favour of one player over the other, which is essentially what that 2nd chance game does. I want a double elim format where the winner of the winner's bracket takes on the winner of the loser's bracket in a single grand championship match. They leave the brackets behind and show down for glory. You can extend the length of the series to Bo5 or Bo7 if it's about maximising games.

NvRossi · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

This is perfect

agreed, uhf = boss

fur · Wed, 11th-Jul-2012, 11:18 PM

I have always preferred Double Elim, both as a player and a spectator.

I always cringe when I see 2 tops players getting bracket fcked in the round of 16 in a major tourney.

A potential solution to the spectator issues could be to make the final a bo5 with the Upper Bracket champ starting with a one map head start

AxSGRiM · Fri, 13th-Jul-2012, 8:28 AM

i think single elim is good for qualifiers and double elim is the best in lans.