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I'm glad you did this. I was going to do it, but.. hey. You made the effort so I don't!

Also, I've always argued for double elim as it's better

Well said!
What do you think about the Double Group stages like HSC? Would take longer tho, just wanna hear some opinions on it

tbh i like double elimination but it really sucks that there is to be two bo3 at the end, why should a player be rewarded for losing and dropping to the lower bracket and be given two chances to beat the guy in the winners bracket. I do understand there are advantages to this style one being that someone can't just cheese two games and take a tournament but I think people should be able to think up another format for tournament that don't require 2 bo3s in the end and thats i more balanced in that players who lose aren't instantly out of the tournament

The player who drops to the losers bracket isn't rewarded at all. If Upper bracket winner wins the first set there is no 2nd set.

He did drop a game to someone else(!) though

mafia 2-1 2-1ed me in the 2nd tokyo qualifier too after losing r1 to satuspr

Yeah, that tgun bloke!

My bad didn't know that but I still think there could be other formats created that allow people to not be instantly eliminated when they lose but still give an advantage to lose who are winning games

I just wish there was a second stream though. During this melb comp, the stream was always showing games different to the ones in lower bracket that I really wanted to see. I know, off topic. I know, you'll put a second one up if it ever becomes feasible.

#1 TvZ AUS

Double elimination means exactly what it says, you have to be eliminated twice. When you get to the finals, the loser bracket player has already lost once, therefore Upper bracket player needs to win one series in order to get loser bracket player to 2 losses. However, the upper bracket player hasn't lost, so loser bracket player needs to win 2 series in order to knock the upper bracket player out.

Double elimination I think is the fairest it gives people who had a bad set of games the chance to redeem themselves; I was never of the opinion that the upper bracket always wins. I always generally tend to see a good fight between the two.

I like double elim, I mean if the finals ends in a quick 2-0 in favor of the WB finalist then he deserved to win imho. It can make an underwhelming finals but a 4-0 in a single elim tournament is just as boring (GSL sup?) if not moreso. I think there needs to me more variety, it seems every tournament on SEA is double elim nowadays and that does make things...stale? I guess...

There needs to be a mix of both in my opinion. Double elim does give the more "accurate" top 3 (prizes and etc) but I think groupstage into single elim needs more of a go (in our region specifically).

Do you guys think the number of participants in a double elimination bracket makes a difference in the quality of the finals? Ie 8 instead of 16

Single vs Doube Elimination
There are benefits to single elimination, I think it can, and should be used when the time calls for it:

• when you have a massive bracket
• where the player skill range is really wide (a couple pros, a couple noobs, and spread of skill between)
• when you tight on time/need to follow a strict schedule

That being said, the big problem with single elimination is seeding (particularly in SEA). Proper seeding based off skill level is used to ensure the best players make it deep into the tournament before they start knocking out the other best players. However, the skill level in SEA is pretty darn close at the top level. The fact our overall player pool really isn't that big, means you don't have the masses of lower tier players to bulk out a single elimination bracket to a level where the top tier players are far enough away from each other. Similarly, we really don't have a plethora of events for our pros to choose from - everyone is attending everything so the top skilled players are always condensed rather than diluted between multiple events.

I feel double elimination is nearly always going to be the common format in SEA. It's fair on our players, and when you don't have a huge player base or a large number of big money events, you really have to make sure the top players are both happy and all given a fair chance.

The bigger picture
The arguement will come up that Single Elimination is better for the viewers, and some people will argue that viewers are all that matter. Whilst for the most part this is sadly true (stuff isn't free & it's all pointless if no one cares), it's really difficult to gauge that when you look at SEA. It's no secret that our local viewership isn't thriving, and the scene is fairly closed off. Most international viewers would probably have trouble naming more than a handful of SEA pros. If those players got knocked out of single elim early, you just lost a lot of interest from those international viewers. Yes, if one of the big names got scalped early by a lower tier player, you bet that player will get a lot of love & cheering from the SEA community. If the aim is to grow however, I'm not sure that's enough to warrant single elimination over double on a regular basis.

This all leads on to a bigger problem in general (exposure), and that is a much bigger problem to tackle.

ps. Just my opinion of course - it doesn't mean I'm right!