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NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice Blog Options
New Fri, 20th-Sep-2013 6:28 PM
x5_NXZ x5_NXZ is offline
 
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Practicing and playing efficiently.

Ok so, personally I always try to be very efficient in how I play the game of starcraft. However, this doesn't stop me from always falling into old habits and the trap of making the same mistakes time and time again. An example of this would be when HotS was first released. I'm bad at using spell casters. Quite simply, my unit control is one of the weakest parts of my gameplay and when offered units that can't just be added to your main control group and forgotten about it is oftentimes very difficult to adjust. So I ignored vipers and swarm hosts.

Yeah, I entirely went muta ling in all matchups for a very long time. Naturally, thanks to the existence of Protoss, I did have to start learning the new units. Along with this came the never ending dilemma of how to hotkey the units. I asked ninja, I asked pig, I thought about it for long periods of time. Even recently, catz said on meta how ret wouldn't use vipers and infestors together because it's so hard to have good hotkeys for both and also your main army. Eventually, I came up with my own personal way of hotkeying the units. And then, I never learnt it fully so that it was seamless. Sure I can use vipers pretty well. I can use swarm hosts pretty well. However, throw in infestors with vipers or corruptors with swarm hosts and all of a sudden I've got no idea. It gets even worse when you add those 4 altogether. Now, tell me how many games you have to control viper/infestor/swarm host in? Yeah, not a lot. Especially when as a player you prefer muta or anything when you're not sitting back doing nothing for 25 minutes. So, from this comes my question.

What can we do to make changes to how you practice to play more efficient and seamless? The example I just used is a big issue but even zerg players who don't hotkey eggs. Sure you'll do that a lot every game but people still don't want to change to the superior rallying method. So what's the solution here. My thinking would be maybe resuming from replay and grinding this out time and time again with a practice partner. But this brings us to the next issue of fun in regards to playing. Resuming from replay to play swarm host turtle 20 times in a row isn't fun. People will play sc2 ladder for huge periods of time because inherently playing the game is enjoyable. Unfortunately this sucks for improvement. Slowly, your game will improve but you'll get good at the things you do a lot (eg muta ling bane vs Terran) and bad at things you don't do (primarily specific strategies against Protoss).

To use the swarm host example again let's say that as a player you've played 1000 games since HotS came out. 300 of them were against Protoss, of those 300 maybe 100 were early game wins or losses. Another 150 were everything but swarm host style. So that leaves us with maybe 50 odd games with swarm hosts. Of those 50 games maybe 10-15 actually go to a late game scenario with both players on equal footing, if that. Wow, 10-15 games across 5 months is nothing. Absolutely nothing. So we need to practice specifically for a certain late game scenario so that we are always playing as best as we can.

However, now we need to find someone to spend several hours to play those games with us. So if we say Zerg vs Protoss is where we want the most specific practice to occur; who do we get for games? In SEA we have blysk, pezz, megafonzie, arze and a few others. Of those 4 I would only ever really practice with fonzie and pezz. So, hypothetically, I ask pezz to play for a few hours where we run through an equal footing late game swarm host vs air game. Now, if pezz is super confident with his mass air control then crushing an inferior player in that specific area of the game for hours straight doesn't help him at all. It becomes inefficient practice for him, even worse than ladder would be. And therein lies our dilemma. Unlike a musical instrument you can't practice alone for things like unit control. We need another player and rarely in our environment can that be delivered upon.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if I want to get really good control in a certain scenario so that I can outplay my opponents in that part of the game; I have to practice it from something like resume from replays and a LOT of times. Even grabbing a practice partner and playing 10 games with him with both of you trying to force the game to go a certain way is not good practice and won't have the biggest effect on your skill in that area. However, the resume from replay method just isn't possible. So then we're all stuck playing ladder and getting better in one of the worst ways possible.

This is something that interests me a lot because I don't have the time that other players might have. How can I arrange my practice so that it is as time efficient as possible? Is a question I ask myself a lot. Perhaps you guys have a solution? Or even just what you do to be as efficient as possible with your practice and play.

My apologies for any lack of flow that may have occurred because I'm essentially thinking about starcraft and having those thoughts thrown onto the page and what might make sense in my head, doesn't necessarily make sense here so if you do want me to reword a particular section I can try do that.

As always big thanks to Exile5's sponsors, Western Digital, Nvidia, Cooler Master and CM Storm. Our team doesn't exist without them to support us and you can check them out in my signature below.

Thanks for reading,

x5 NXZ
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Replies to Blog: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice
New Fri, 20th-Sep-2013, 8:15 PM BnetId: Pezzaperry.756  Race: Location: Melbourne, Australia  Total Posts: 307  # 1
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

ctrl+f pezz, was not dissapointed.

Nice blog. I really do think you have to practice only 1 matchup 10-20 games in a row if you want to get better at that specific matchup, and that means ladder isn't great practice. Unless I want to practice pvp, where it's entirely possible to get 10 ladder games in a row
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New Fri, 20th-Sep-2013, 8:27 PM BnetId: aLtNXZ.221  Race: Clan: aLt  Location: Brisbane, Australia  Total Posts: 853  # 2
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCNPezz
ctrl+f pezz, was not dissapointed.

Nice blog. I really do think you have to practice only 1 matchup 10-20 games in a row if you want to get better at that specific matchup, and that means ladder isn't great practice. Unless I want to practice pvp, where it's entirely possible to get 10 ladder games in a row
Yeah, and then if you want to improve at something really specific you gotta practice that 10-20 times in a row.
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New Fri, 20th-Sep-2013, 8:35 PM BnetId: asdasdff  Race: Clan: $$$$$$$$  Location: Canberra, Australia  Total Posts: 1,466  # 3
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

I'd like them to allow resume from replay to be a little quicker of a process, so you can select the time before entering the game so you don't have to wait several minutes to get 20 minutes into a game, I think this would at least encourage me to use the function more often because atm you use it once or twice then realise you are taking more time to load to the spot you want then you are actually playing the bloody scenerio.
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New Sat, 21st-Sep-2013, 3:48 AM   Race: Total Posts: 964  # 4
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

An easy way to make the game not fun.
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New Sat, 21st-Sep-2013, 11:44 AM BnetId: PhoenixA  Race: Clan: pX  Location: Newcastle Australia  Total Posts: 277  # 5
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

A agree with wally that the resume from replay function needs to become a lot more usable because at the moment there is almost no point trying to ask someone to use it with you.

I also think that match up specific practice is the best way to improve, but it is very hard to find a partner to practice with, and often people don't enjoy playing 10-20 games just against you because they prefer ladder as a method of practice, often because of the enjoyment factor compared to playing 10-20 custom games against the same thing.
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New Sat, 21st-Sep-2013, 3:53 PM BnetId: eehanProAnnn.969  Race: Location: Singapore  Total Posts: 694  # 6
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

I love playing 20-30 games of the same matchup. Improves much faster! So msg me if u need a protoss practice partner
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New Sat, 21st-Sep-2013, 4:18 PM BnetId: aLtNXZ.221  Race: Clan: aLt  Location: Brisbane, Australia  Total Posts: 853  # 7
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by iM Light
An easy way to make the game not fun.
That doesn't stop musicians from doing equally repetitive, specific things so that they can improve. Sure there isn't a set way to go about starcraft just yet but I'm sure that just laddering and "having fun playing games" isn't what we should be aiming for competitively.
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New Sun, 22nd-Sep-2013, 4:59 PM BnetId: Pezzaperry.756  Race: Location: Melbourne, Australia  Total Posts: 307  # 8
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by x5_NXZ
That doesn't stop musicians from doing equally repetitive, specific things so that they can improve. Sure there isn't a set way to go about starcraft just yet but I'm sure that just laddering and "having fun playing games" isn't what we should be aiming for competitively.
I think it's one of the biggest difference between foreigner pros and Korean pros.

Even TLO admitted his practice is not efficient. I think Naniwa's best results came from when he was in the Startale house and practiced for specific matchups in the teamhouse.
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New Mon, 23rd-Sep-2013, 1:05 AM   Total Posts: 877  # 9
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCNPezz
I think it's one of the biggest difference between foreigner pros and Korean pros.

Even TLO admitted his practice is not efficient. I think Naniwa's best results came from when he was in the Startale house and practiced for specific matchups in the teamhouse.
Biggest difference between foreign pros and Korean pros is that Korean pros have the ability to hammer out 10-20 games in a row vs a specific race doing a specific build. That's about it. You know you have a P/T/Z coming up in a tournament? Get a practice partner to mimic their style and try a certain build 10-20 games in a row.

Repeat until you feel comfortable.

Exact same thing when preparing for big tournaments. You simply play standard vs whichever race you feel weakest against. Koreans aren't born better at the game. They simply have the ability to play in a practice house with 4-5+ people of a race that will happily practice with them when asked. Foreigners don't do this, even with the ability to just ask people. Instead, most people just grind ladder games.

Sad thing is, I'm not even making this up. Korean practice regimes aren't exactly a secret, yet there are very few (if any) foreigners who even try to mimic it, because foreign teams very rarely have more than 2 players per race.

However, that being said, efficient practice isn't going to be the same for everyone; some people won't benefit from strict, structured practice regimes. Innovative styles, much like TLOs strategies require the opponent to not expect what's coming, thus hitting a wide range of opponents (see: ladder) is reasonable. However, you're unable to select a specific matchup so while reasonable, it's not optimal.

I'm sort of running off on a tangent here, hell, I don't even remember my original point. I think it was something about how foreigners are stupid. Good blog, though, even without mentioning me.
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New Mon, 23rd-Sep-2013, 9:27 PM BnetId: aLtNXZ.221  Race: Clan: aLt  Location: Brisbane, Australia  Total Posts: 853  # 10
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by iM tgun
Biggest difference between foreign pros and Korean pros is that Korean pros have the ability to hammer out 10-20 games in a row vs a specific race doing a specific build. That's about it. You know you have a P/T/Z coming up in a tournament? Get a practice partner to mimic their style and try a certain build 10-20 games in a row.

Repeat until you feel comfortable.

Exact same thing when preparing for big tournaments. You simply play standard vs whichever race you feel weakest against. Koreans aren't born better at the game. They simply have the ability to play in a practice house with 4-5+ people of a race that will happily practice with them when asked. Foreigners don't do this, even with the ability to just ask people. Instead, most people just grind ladder games.

Sad thing is, I'm not even making this up. Korean practice regimes aren't exactly a secret, yet there are very few (if any) foreigners who even try to mimic it, because foreign teams very rarely have more than 2 players per race.

However, that being said, efficient practice isn't going to be the same for everyone; some people won't benefit from strict, structured practice regimes. Innovative styles, much like TLOs strategies require the opponent to not expect what's coming, thus hitting a wide range of opponents (see: ladder) is reasonable. However, you're unable to select a specific matchup so while reasonable, it's not optimal.

I'm sort of running off on a tangent here, hell, I don't even remember my original point. I think it was something about how foreigners are stupid. Good blog, though, even without mentioning me.
Yeah for sure, and I mean even if as a foreigner you want to ladder some you can still ladder after you've played against that opponent to uncover any other issues. But again I suppose it comes down to again foreigners not living in a teamhouse with things like a coach. This is evidenced by Kane leaving root just now, sure root has a teamhouse but catz has said hes a friend, not a coach. And so they just live together and play games on ladder which is pretty sad considering the potential there.
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New Thu, 26th-Sep-2013, 10:28 PM BnetId: aLtnirvAnA.951  Race: Clan: aLt  Location: Singapore  Total Posts: 4,857  # 11
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

its a method of learning called deliberate practice. its tedious, not many want to do it. therefore it only rewards those who work hard at it and there aren't many. it requies effort and will increase your skill ceiling.
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New Thu, 26th-Sep-2013, 10:55 PM BnetId: eehanProAnnn.969  Race: Location: Singapore  Total Posts: 694  # 12
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Re: NXZ's thoughts - efficient practice

If you need a protoss practice partners to hammer at you with 200 allins, i'm always here!
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