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SLCN.Kez · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 9:53 AM

Does it actually matter? Knowing you are x amount of wins from promotion doesn't help you get those wins any easier or sooner. All the factors you listed are 100% independent of your actual skill at the game. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet",or, a good player would be a good player, irrespective of league. There's no logical reason to NEED to see it. It's merely so you can say "oh, this guys ELO is lower than mine and I lost to him, he must be shit" etc etc. Keep grindin out them games man and focus on getting better, and you'll get promoted pretty quick

mGGPrometheus · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 9:57 AM

I remember DB in an interview saying something to the effect of "The truth is, most people don't really increase in skill, and so to have the MMR visible to you could be depressing", which is the biggest load of bullshit.

SLCN.Kez · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 9:58 AM

that actually sounds like a pretty legit reason imo

SLCN.CautioN · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:01 AM

"I am almost finding the more I play now the less motivated I am to go back after I stop as there is a complete lack in sense of achievement."

GET DAT SEA GM MEZJIE!!

mGGPrometheus · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:01 AM

I reckon knowing my MMR would just give me more motivation to improve, rather than being stuck "somewhere" in the middle of some league. LoL players get to see their ELO and it's one of the most popular games online.

(Yeah I know LoL is depressing but I think that's for other reasons)

MezjE · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:02 AM

Titan that is mostly my point ><

syfCabracan · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGGTitan

I remember DB in an interview saying something to the effect of "The truth is, most people don't really increase in skill, and so to have the MMR visible to you could be depressing", which is the biggest load of bullshit.

This is probably the reason. They give us bonus pool so even if we arent winning more than 50% of our games our points still slowly increase over the season without us realising that we aren't actually progressing up the ladder.

Edit: I should add that I find the system frustrating as well.

SLCN.Kez · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:07 AM

You can see how many points you're on, how many points the dudes above you have, how is that not motivation enough? To get more points you gotta play/win more games, same as ELO (I think? I actually have very little intricate knowledge of how elo works).
I love ya man, but it sounds like you're looking for excuses as to why you haven't been promoted yet, other than, perhaps you're not good enough/ready, or you just need to play and win a few more games before blizzards system promotes you. I had the same thing happen to me when I was trying to be promoted to GM. I'd get frustrated that I would be beating gm players, then losing to Masters players, but what I didn't realise is, if you're losing to people lower/even with you, even though you might have beaten a few people slightly higher than you in MMR, it still doesn't mean you're ready to be promoted. I've beaten other various top guys in SEA, does that mean I am now a top person in sea? No. I'd need to be beating them at least 50/50 of the time for a while to possibly be considered up there.

Just keep practicing and eventually you'll get there. Nothing worth having comes easy.

breadfan · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:08 AM

For some people, it might be motivation to improve, while for others it might be a cause for ladder anxiety/cause not to play. Blizzard have opted to hide it to benefit the latter - I guess when it comes down to it, they aren't as worried about your personal improvement as they are about people who might quit playing.

Also, their system isn't straight up Elo, and you don't get auto promoted at a certain benchmark MMR-rating anyway. It's likely to just cause issues when peoople feel they are even more entitled to a promotion.

eCKo`Tazerenix · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:15 AM

The reason is the target base doesn't care about mmr.

We sit here as, compared to the majority of starcraft users, borderline professional players. We are all competitive and want to do well on the ladder and want to see how good we are in comparison to our peers, most of whom are on teams and clans with us. But we are the minority.

Blizzard has leagues and ladders because its a good selling point. They can say to Joe Shmoe on the street that they have a super advanced matchmaking system which puts you in leagues. They can say you can climb the ladder and gain points, and get promoted, because Joe Shmoe the casual gamer and all his casual gamer friends will enjoy that. They will enjoy the sense of achievement when they increase in rank in their ladder, or get promoted from bronze to silver, and it will encourage them and others to buy the game, stick around and eventually pump more money into the game.

Why would Joe Shmoe care about his Elo rating (or what ever the MMR is), thats some useless number that he doesn't care about. So after a win he went from 800 to 808, well thats a tiny change why would he care, but after a win if he goes from rank 25 to rank 19, well damn thats up 5 places over 100 people! He better keep playing.

Blizzard don't show mmr because leagues and ladders sell better. They dont show it along side the leagues and ladders because it trivializes the league system and reveals to new users the fact that they aren't really improving that much, even if they think they are, scaring them away from the game.

Zepph · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:17 AM

Kez makes a good point. The points are pretty much why they don't show your actual MMR. Points ARE, as far as you should be concerned, your MMR. Or at least a representation of it.

Another reason Blizzard would not implement a visible MMR number is because that kind of thing is complex (see: TL threads on the matter). There is a bit involved in understanding how MMR gets calculated, and therefore even if you could see the number (which can sometimes take a long time to even out like when you're stuck in a league for a while) it's possible that it won't really mean much.

MezjE · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breadfan

For some people, it might be motivation to improve, while for others it might be a cause for ladder anxiety/cause not to play. Blizzard have opted to hide it to benefit the latter - I guess when it comes down to it, they aren't as worried about your personal improvement as they are about people who might quit playing.

Also, their system isn't straight up Elo, and you don't get auto promoted at a certain benchmark MMR-rating anyway. It's likely to just cause issues when peoople feel they are even more entitled to a promotion.

The people who casually and only to have fun shouldn't care about MMR and if you get ladder anxiety yet not care about your MMR I actually have no idea why you are even playing the game...

I also fail to see who plays the game if they don't play to improve or to have fun and muck around? Do these people really exist?

You can still have the exact same ladder system with showing MMR and market it that way too, you can't say MMR will detract the average Joe if you say make it optional or don't market it as the ranking, look at LoL it has way more average Joe's playing and it uses ELO straight up, that argument hardly works.

@Paro I just got it but the fact we have to use a thir party tool that isn't 100% accurate is just stupid.

Paroxysm · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGGTitan

I reckon knowing my MMR would just give me more motivation to improve, rather than being stuck "somewhere" in the middle of some league. LoL players get to see their ELO and it's one of the most popular games online.

(Yeah I know LoL is depressing but I think that's for other reasons)

Slightly unrelated, but LoL is actually changing to a 'league style', much like Blizzards current SC2 ladders. Riot claims that showing ELO to their players make them feel like they're not achieving much at all, whereas the league style 'apparently' is more attractive to most of their customers. Just some food for thought...

I would rather see ELO, that way I can set goals for where I want to be in 'x' amount of time and know how close (or far away) I am to my goal. You can always use the MMR Rating Tool in SC2Gears though, if you're interested?

syfCabracan · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:33 AM

The new LoL system does clearly show your progression between leagues though.

Edit: I'm not trying to say your point is invalid or anything. Just trying to add to the infomation available for people not familair with LoL.

Paroxysm · Thu, 24th-Jan-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrisCabracan

The new LoL system does clearly show your progression between leagues though.

Edit: I'm not trying to say your point is invalid or anything. Just trying to add to the infomation available for people not familair with LoL.

To be honest, I've only heard about it so I'm not sure of the specifics. Riot is certainly doing a far better job than Blizzard though in terms of looking after their players.