SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

dude lollies are fuckin awesome, let's be real david would fly in for lollies and a 6th place monitor

David would fly over just so he could be in a real country for once

I don't want to delve to much into this, but Mushi, although rather blunt, brings up strong points in their and I wouldn't mind hearing some answers from Management themselves if they are up to it.

On that topic, DynSL players, you really should not be replying to this blog at all. You are all replying very emotionally and it is not helping your argument at all, the best thing for you guys to do is be quiet and wait for your management to come out and make a statement, then, and ONLY THEN, should you consider inputting your own thoughts. A prime example -->

First of all, I am not 100% sure about your role in the team so I'm not going to crucify you or anything, but tournament placements is one of the biggest factors to attracting sponsors? If you don't have a personality who manages to bring along 100+ viewers to their stream or youtube channels, then tournament results is the next best thing you have!
If you really think that way you stated above, and you are apart of the management, then I wish you the best of luck.

Wrong attitude dude. You might think Mushi is a troll, but like many people relevant in the scene have said, he raises valuable issues. As a manager, its your job to come here and defend your team, not for your players or others that do not associate with your organisation to do so. You don't have to go into detail over everything, but being honest and up front is 100% the best way to go about it, not saying that explaining yourself is a waste of time when its defending your team!

In the skype group I was defending the team an it was falling of deaf ears I'm at work atm sonwhen ibget home ill give you answers but I cant reveal all info obviously

Omnomnomnom, so much banter omnomnom
sc2sea aliev site agin woooh
People are posting lots of good points and it's not really worth arguing about it. Just watch and see whether Dynasty will help the scene or just die out in the mere future... I do respect that the blog was posted in the first place and that it makes sense.

Many good points raised and I believe, several good intentions from both sides. Having a lan is usually a good thing. It is common at the work place in general after a project to revview and reflect, what was good what wasnt, looking for AFIs, areas for improvement.

So u suggest trying to look at it as objectively as possible without being too emotional and handling the matter professionally. So think before speaking without worsenig the matter.

My hand is a dolphin

Yes, listen to zenabi. He's the best example of how to not be part of the old boys club and still make it pretty good in a small scene

I hate you all

#worstpinsea
#trustinfrust
#bestinthewest
#firstplace
#allmostasgoodascentrelink

Hmmmmm.. Some interesting opinions being thrown around. But overall, no one can really tell Ice how to run his own team. That said, the below is a novel and I really haven't check through it - its really just a raw output of my opinion.

Sure, I'll weigh in with my advise, I had been talking to Ice about this privately but since its all out in the open, I thought it fair to add my comments. Ice has always been very approachable when discussing team management with me. I want to make it clear that 90% of the fray v DynSL banter is just in good fun to build a bit of hype for something this scene lacks - some spice and good clan battles.

Anyway, no one here has the right to tell Ice that he is spending his money incorrectly. You don't go up to people at the super market and tell them not to buy product X because Product Y is more price efficient or can yield better results... It is his money to spend how he wants. I spent $2,000 of my own money for a nice hotel room for Melbourne ACL (2013 I think? when iaguz won). I've also rented a Audi for a weekend of ACL Sydney back in 2012 or something for like $500 for the weekend. And no one mentioned anything about it.. and you shouldn't. It's my money, I'll do with it what I want.

That said, there is a valid argument that if funds are limited (which no one but Ice and Skitz are aware of, they could both be millionaires) then sure, funds could have been better used. Spending around $600 on prize pool is money that could have flown Frustration to East Aussie LAN which could have yielded the team better publicity. I agree, if the money used was sponsorship funds then thats one of the fastest ways to lose a sponsor in eSports. Sponsors are paying money for marketing return, if you can't give them ROI then they will dump you. If a scene fucks over a sponsor its likely that the sponsor will not return to supporting a team. That said, if your goal is just to have some fun - then come out and own it. It looked like it was fun! and I'm glad you enjoyed a weekend of SC2!! Saying it was a good investment in bolstering the dying perth LAN scene is misguided. As far as an outsider looking in, if I was considering running a Perth LAN your tournament showed me that there were no where near enough SC2 players in a City that size to warrant a LAN in Perth. So a half baked LAN for fun with a side goal of boosting the Perth LAN scene can do more harm than good.

As far as the legitimacy of Dynasty (which is the crux of the haters argument) I agree that a collective of diamond level, non-sponsored players should not be considered a 'team' but a clan. That is merely my interpretation of the term as it applies to eSports. A team such as fray, the one I know about (as I can not speak for others) is a team because it has had years of success on numerous titles and tournament wins. This makes a team, results and sponsorship. Since I have been managing fray, I have allocated thousands worth of funds and sponsorship gear. I have not always given the right ROI on these decisions and haven't always made the right choices but I have learnt from my experience and developed my decision making accordingly. So if anything, Ice take away from your LAN the pro's and con's and learn from your experience. If you do that, then it may very well have been worth it.

As for the LAN itself. No it didn't seem like a glaring success from the outside. But that depends on the goal of the tournament, as it has already been discussed, exposure and promotion of the Dynasty brand and its ability to run events was minimal. Promoting the players involved in the team was also minimal. However, Ice has stated he wanted to show that LANs can still be run, albeit the success of this LAN may have proven otherwise, they spent their own money how they wanted and enjoyed an event. Grats to you for having the guts to try and do this. What you can learn from the LAN and what you might have done incorrectly? Promotion. The big thing people in SEA aren't the best at. This LAN wasn't even posted on TL. The tournament stream wasn't on TL. There wasn't enough hype leading up to it, even on SC2SEA. And the production and quality of games was sub-par. Adjust those elements of your event management and you'll have much more success with your events.

If you want to grown your team, you need to be seen to be making smart decisions with money to develop a brand. People forget that sponsored eSports is essentially niche marketing. You need to present yourself as a marketing agent able to deliverer results for your sponsors. Spending a bunch for 'fun' is all good, but be mindful of the other implications such spending carries. I hope you can deliver on your promises to your team and don't get yourself in too far that you can not afford to pay for what you've promised. Take a look at people like Zenabi - that guy is behind the scenes and has built up a great team from the bottom up. My hat goes off to him, he really knows what to do in this scene. That said, he still has yet to net a title sponsor (as far as I am aware) and has been doing it right from the start. So don't expect things like that to fall into place because you think you're making the right decisions.

I want to preface the below point; this is not directed at anyone in particular, just something I have observed in the scene over the years.
My final point is on the role of the manager in eSports. I have not been the best I can be in the last year, as I am so occupied with my real life commitments and this saddens me. However, the best example I can think of is again, Zenabi. Many upstart eSports teams are created by individuals wanting to be a star themselves. This scene is tiny, you're not going to get famous from eSports in Australia - especially not as a manager. Don't delude yourself into thinking you are relevant because you manage a team that 50 people might know about. The role of a manger is to make your players a star. Promote their achievements and help them to achieve their best results. Keeping up the publicity of your team is paramount. Do not take bait and try not to be emotional in your conduct. Sit behind the scenes and focus the attention on the talent in your team, don't even consider yourself part of that talent.

All the best in developing your team. I hope you can take away some sound advice from the people that have experience that have posted in this thread and also learn from your event and improve moving forward. I'm always here to help anyone in SEA if I can and I hope you don't take my post as offensive.

Yeah it's near pointless to try and revive a scene by introducing a large prize pool which would mostly be won by a select few who are already relevant to the scene. It seems like cool incentive to bring players back by hosting such a large prized event but the players would be rusty and would be unable to realistically play as well as those who know the meta and are mechanically practiced.

But keep your head up Ice mate it might seem like everyone is attacking you and your boys but every good manager took their share of criticism and scrutiny when they first started out and how they dealt with it is a reason why they are prominent managers in the scene today. . I think the tournament was good for a bit of run and something different but sponsor money is a finicky issue, especially in a scene like ours with a history of empty promises and sub-par managed teams

also chadmann post #1


and pox is god

Sponsors come into businesses for media attention, you don't have to be placing highly in tournaments to get media attention :P

Hey everyone,
In regards to the LAN it was purely organised to boost interest in Western Australia as Perth used to have a decent sized community a while ago. Mainly to help bring back some players to the game and perhaps revive teh game pre and post release of LOTV. The prize pool was decided to accomodate for 20+ players. Unfortunately a few players who said they were interested in attending the LAN, did not show up on the day. Dynasty has a close affiliation with the LAN cafe (Fragzone) where it was hosted so this event was hosted fthe interest of both parties, the community and the players.

In regards to player pickups and other team decisions, Ice is the one responsible for this. I act more as an advisor to team captains and will only act upon a decision if I see it poor or unfit for the Organisation or the team and sponsors etc.
I believe Ice has a solid plan and a vision for the team.

As a player who saw the fluctuations in the COD4 scene I can honestly say it was very similar to what is currently occuring in the sc2 SEA scene. It loses older players, new players come in, older players return etc etc. As I am very new to the sc2 scene and unheard and unkown here I don't espect to be heard or, however I will say insead of trolling each other and killing the scene, work with what you have to keep it alive, that's why COD4 lasted 7ish years. Ego trips and personal attacks deter people from a gaming community instead of inviting them in.

As for sponsorship and financial support, Australia is not America or Europe. Australia lacks big name sponsors (Minus a handful of Orgs) and it is extremely hard to obtain big name sponsorship deals. Dynasty uses what we have avalable and I don't think financial support is a concern of ours at the minute.

If anyone wishes to discuss Dynasty or anything else with me please feel free to email me at @dynastyesportsau@gmail.com

Kind regards

Rory "Skitz!"

So i want to bring up a big point that people tried to justify, not once did ice say he put his own money into the event and nor did he ever point to it. He just constantly said that he has sponsors backing him and the event/org. Which is why i started this, i could not care less if a guy wasted his own money but the second he wants to waste sponsor money and take a huge loss and say "Its not about the money" is the point i cross the line.

People that **** with sponsorship money in a already tiny scene just **** it up for the teams that are honestly trying and have a chance to do great. Although the chance of this game really ever coming back to anywhere near its prime are extremely low with all the pro players in our scene switching to other games for more money/poker we cant have people wasting what little funding the scene gets and leaving a bad image so the scene will never get a new sponsorship.

This post was written up exactly for these reasons, i may not be involved to much with the sc2 scene anymore but my best friend is and i know afew people who are still trying. These guys already have a little chance at making it big, let alone getting a "Good" sponsor to join their team. The chances just get even worse if a new team just comes into the scene wastes few hundred of sponsor money then in six months ends and has minimal losses for themself but a huge loss for the community (thus being no sponsor will come back to this game)


Thanks everyone for the valid responses this is stuff that everyone had been thinking and had to be said, everyone wanted to say it but was tip-toeing around it because of reputation/other issues.

On the topic of dynasty comments, please dont. Nothing you guys wrote was worth the time of these guys/me to write back as you knew minimal about what you posted.

Edit: I posted this before i could read the post above this so the comment ^ does not apply to you.

Apologies, that last post by Ice was meant to be posted by me. He left Sc2Sea logged in on his account and I didn't realise.