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Thoughts on Thorzain's TvT
 

Day[9] has made an excellent 'daily' covering Thorzain's TvT fast expand opening. Basically it's an extremely efficient fast expand build that seems not only safe as houses, but extremely flexible.

While Day[9] has an amazing show, I sometimes find his stuff less than helpful. He covers theories, strategies and builds that play very well at the top level, but perhaps aren't super well suited to the lean, mean world of Battle.net or in the hands of someone who lacks godly micro and flawless macro.

So I've decided to do a bit of a recap of the Daily and cover my experiences using the build as a Mid-Master player on the North American server. If you're a higher level player I'd love any feed back you've got, and if you're a lower level player trying this strategy (or something similar) maybe you'll learn something here that will help.

Watch the daily: here

Replays from the NASL (that Day[9] draws from) are available: here.

Thorzain's TvT

I suggest you watch the first part of the daily or a couple of reps if you have on idea what I'm talking about.

The build order goes a lil' somethin' like this:
Depot
Rax (constant marine production from all barracks)
Orbital
Depot
CC @ 18/19 supply (when cash available)
Second Barracks
Double Gas (only "2" scv's on each gas)
When second barracks finishes start a 3rd
Add a reactor+techlab to your barracks
Combat Sheilds
3rd Reactor
Engineering bay
Factory (add more scv's to gas)
Starport+reactor
Double medivacs

It might sound complicated but it flows really, really well mainly because you need very few scv's building anything at a given time.

Some additional notes and commentary stemming from the day[9]ly

Mirror match ups are a biatch. There is always a chance you're going to get rock/paper/scissored.

Change your mindset regarding Depots. Instead of kicking yourself every time you supply block yourself, congratulate yourself whenever you don't. At lower levels, really anything below GM, people are going to make those sorts of mistakes. If you're not, you're getting ahead.

Onto the games

Replay pack available here: http://drop.sc/packs/420

Game 1

Opponent: Smaug – Map: Arid Plateau

Not sure that this is the best map for this opening. Amusingly, my opponent was also opting for a fast expo (which given the recent day[9] daily meant it was probably going to be the Thorzain opener). This was confirmed when he hit me with a big bunch of marines. My defenders advantage with the mirror build made this an easy hold despite my opponent having opted for a fast +1 attack. My counter didn't fair too well, and the game devolved into a pretty fun marine/tank TvT war in which I managed to squeeze out a victory over 20 odd minutes.

If I had my time again I would have waited for a tank or 2 before countering after my opponents initial assault failed, I may have been able to do more damage in that case.

Good start!

Game 2

Opponent: QQmuch – Map: Shattered Temple

Again I find my opponent going for a quick expand, though of a slightly different variety. My build isn't super crisp and I waste a scan confirming my initial hunch that he was fast expoing. Some early marine pressure from my opponent catches me a little off guard and disrupts me a bit. None the less, I emerge from the early game in a good position and then proceed into standard TvT marine/tank play.
I do my best to remember Day[9]'s philosophy of “scooping” away at the siege line and do my best slowly take map control. Some pretty scary moment during the game, especially when my opponent charges into my main with 23782732 marines. Thankfully I'm able to hold and keep my macro production up for most of the game.

I edge out a 35 minute win.

Game 3

Opponent: Hydro – Map: Shakuras Plateau

Finally I face someone going for a 1/1/1.

I get a read on this but I am way to lax about monitoring my base and my opponent is able to elevator 6 hellions into my main. They take out 15 scv's before I can clear them out. This is followed up by a cloaked banshee who adds to my pain.

I try some drop play in retaliation but I'm way too far behind and it's not long until my opponent end it.

Something well worth doing in hindsight is placing depot in the dark corners of your base, I had enough marines to stop his hellion play owning me as hard as it did. If you're opponent is 1/1/1ing I feel it's totally worth throwing up a turret or 2 around 7. The early expansion would mean you're still ahead economically.

Game 4

Opponent: Sovern Map: Antiga Shipyard

Another 1/1/1.

My opponent this time goes for a fast cloakshee. My turret placement is less than optimal (never sure how many is too many) so the banshees are able to pick off quite a few marines but do no real damage.

I am cruising along nicely and figured my opponent had expanded following his cloakshee harass. I decided to go for a double medivac drop in his main. In short, I should have scanned. My opponent hadn't expanded but had massed a solid 1/1/1 army and proceeded to kill me.

Even without the scan if I just decided to push out to the control tower and take map control I would have held his push easily. I played stupid and so I lost.

Taking map control+securing a third is just a way higher percentage play than going the fast drop. If anyone has any other thoughts I'd love to hear them.

Game 5

Opponent: BugOnShield Map: Antiga Shipyard

I scout later than I should have and get denied by a marine but see a wall off, leading me conclude (accurately as it turned out) that my opponent was going for a fast expansion. Watching the replay I feel that the build I was using was far more efficient than my opponent's. Sacrificing very little in the way of defense while gaining more tech.

My build was really un-crisp this game, but it's really no biggie. After confirming my opponent has gone for a fast expo as well I take a quick third and gear up for some serious macro. Once I have a couple of tanks and 50 odd marines I decide to try and siege his main from the low ground.
While I don't feel the attack was bad per say my opponent, who it turns out had been going pure mass marine is able to clean it up. Checking the replay I'd say the attack was worth it.

I try and siege up at home but I'm very sloppy with my marine placement and his mass marine+medivac counter attack does way more damage at first than it really should have. However, he pushes his luck too far and I'm able to clean it up while a counter drop of my own kills his third.

From this point it's e-z mode and I'm able to counter and force the GG.

In conclusion from my 5 games (not a massive sample I realise but I can add some more later if people are really interested) I'd say it's damn fine fast expansion build.

In 3 games I faced opponents who were going fast expands themselves and I feel I was really well placed entering the mid game.

I did get nailed pretty hard by opponents doing heavy 1 base aggression, but I feel that the build itself has the potential to hold those off in the hands of a more experienced user. Furthermore, you would be at a decisive advantage if you did hold them off.



Your valued thoughts and feedback are hereby sought.

P.S. I'm trying to start a blog with some SC related stuff and musings of my own: you can find it here... http://foodshelterinternet.wordpress.com/