SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

Zerg vs Protoss
 

Lately I haven't been playing zerg that much.
After quitting the game altogether but then ending up coming back because any alternatives to sc2 as a hobby lack human interaction TT (I do have a wonderful gf here in korea but everyone else I knew here left a long time ago)

So back I went to sc2 and all the cool guys at FaDe and at sc2sea...
I fought against bs cheese and unscoutable all ins and even managed to get my 1000 wins portrait for zerg
So I thought perhaps its time to play some random. Maybe learning the other races will help my zerg.

I couldn't enjoy playing terran (probably something to do with me having self respect and honour )
And zerg was either too easy or too frustrating... So I ended dabbling in protoss for a while.
Terran are still bs all the time but protoss is a much better race than zerg I feel.

PvZ at plat level is a joke. My protoss is gold and I can still herp derp, bad macro and random build and rape face against a zerg. I can only imagine how much easier it is when I have a solid idea of what I'm doing and a build order with half decent macro.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So recently I have been sick. Some nasty chest thing means i'm coughing a bit now and then.
I decided to play some ZvP against a clan mate and it wasn't pleasant...
First game he opened 3 gate expo and I thought nice, I have a specific build and timings for that. I kept checking the natural to make sure it wasn't a cancel cheese.
He didn't cancel - but he still cheesed.
It was effectively a nexus cancel 4 gate without the cancel and high sentry count so he trundles along and puts infinite FF on my ramp.
I was not happy at all. Unscoutable random super early cheese push ftl

Second game I got unlucky - which seems to be every game I play as zerg. The fact the a warp prism can fly right over a queen, convert, warp in zealots all without losing hull damage baffles me. He drew my units out of position and there was nothing i could do.
I did survive... then when I tried to deny his third he got lucky, i got pissed off and left.

Then I ended up having a serious coughing fit which nearly had me bashing my head on the desk.
As it turns out I physically can no longer handle zerg - yet no problem with protoss :S
I really like zerg (apart from them being too weak early on) but I hit a wall and simply don't have the time to invest in getting past it.

So continue as diamond zerg losing to utter BS strats that may wind up putting me in a hospital or learn protoss until I hit masters and have the same problem?
Sometimes I hate this game

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

Play one on SEA and the other on NA. Rotate between them. That's what i did for a while.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

Unfortunately NA is unplayable from korea

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

Well that sucks.

Now that the seasons are shorter, 2 months, may as well give Protoss a good go. If don't like it/think can improve, maybe back to Zerg season 5.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

TL;DR I can beat platinum Zerg in ZvP, Protoss is EZ mode?

In all seriousness, if he built a nexus and killed you with sentry/zealot pressure, it seems to me your first port of call is to have a look at your build order, because I think there may be an issue with it. Unable to say more without a replay.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

compared to zerg protoss is EZ mode
I'm sure it will be different in masters but yeah

My build order isn't the problem. Its because i scouted him not going nexus cancel all in and figured that a full on committed attack - it wasn't pressure it was full on attack.
I guessed wrong so i lost. I had lings out to deal with the normal pressure that comes but he pushed in FF on my ramp and its gg. as soon as toss get an FF on your ramp its game over.

Anyways thats just an example. Zerg are subject to way too many bullshit strats that require a ridiculous high level to beat. I asked a gm mate and he said I need to count probes (so i need to memorize probes counts for every timing) to see if he will attack or not.
I simply don't have the time to invest into learning all the timings and stuff because by the time I did my mechanics would have sunk to silver level from having not actually played a single game

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

Well if you don't have time to learn "all the timings and stuff" fair enough. Just don't complain that you don't win, because if you want to play any race at a high level you need to learn all the timings and stuff.

As a Protoss GM, I have picked zerg and terran before and just used timing attacks to beat players ranging from mid masters to low GM Protoss players. I don't think this proves anything other than that cheese catches out everyone from time to time, especially strong cheese by players with decent mechanics, no matter what race.

Zerg strats included 6pool, 2hatch ling/roach off 20 drones, 2base muta ling; Terran strats included no gas mass rine/scv all in and 3rax MM. These build orders/strats are ridiculously easy to execute (imo even easier than the much maligned 4gate) and quite powerful against someone not expecting it or who doesn't know how to react. This doesn't mean Z or T is EZ mode - executing sophisticated Z/T strats is incredibly difficult. But honestly, I think you're just complaining about 1 base all ins because your play style is not solid.

TL;DR If you want to whinge about losing because Protoss is OP, perhaps try the battle.net forum - there are more people there with similar problems, and I'm sure their constructive comments will be of great assistance.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

It's a shame I can't give positive rep for that post, I completely agree.

Meatex I think the best thing for you to do is try out either Protoss or Terran for a season and get some perspective. It might humble your views on balance or how difficult each race is, and just from an outside perspective I think the biggest thing holding you back is your attitude (let's just say this isn't the first time you've discussed the unfairness of ZvP).

Try seeking constructive criticism from your opponents. I noticed you mention you often get frustrated so I suggest playing with the mindset that the game is completely balanced. You'll be surprised how much difference that makes in improvement.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

While I can get constructive critism from my clan mates on ladder thats impossible.
I have been playing random a bit and lately maining protoss like I said and am finding it much more relaxing despite losing a lot.
Not saying protoss doesn't have hard points but you both miss the point.
Also as random I never all in or cheese because that doesn't help me learn how to play the race.
I don't play deathball style at all PvZ and don't 1 base or 2 base all in. Actually really enjoy pheonix play and warp prism play.

Again I don't care about whether I win or lose. Played a diamond PvT and had a lot of fun with drop play, multi pronged attacks etc and almost won the game but drops took out all my income. It was a fun game.
My point was zerg is very frustrating race to play because you are always walking a razers edge. I make a few drones too many i get butt stomped. I make a few units too many and it delays everything which makes end game harder.
Even PiG said today that protoss can do so many different things its very hard to scout (in fact pig doesn't bother usually)
Its easy to say do this and do that but I'm not gm. I never will be GM because I simply cannot invest the time needed assuming I could get my APM up to snuff as well.

TL,DR: No comments about OP or UP. Zerg requires large time investment. Protoss less frustrating zerg more frustrating.
Point of post was should I try to struggle with zerg and maybe eventually hit a breakthrough or spend some time with toss getting to the same ceiling where I need to start learning solid timings etc

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

You'll hit the same ceiling with any race... Play whichever race you enjoy most if you don't want to spend actual time and effort breaking a barrier. I was high masters Zerg for so long... Now I'm gm. Between then and now I bought another account and played Terran and Protoss to rank ~10 masters (in division) which was fun and taught me alot.

I won most of my p/tvZ's - but did get my ass kicked a few times. This definately humbled me and showed me it's just as hard for other races - this goes a -long- way to getting you in the mind set to improve.

A Week or 2 after I switched to Zerg full time I found myself rank 1 masters sea and 5 games later GM. This came down to mindset, not "x build is op"... You rly can't improve like that.

Re: Zerg vs Protoss
 

Toss ftw, Meaty. I did random for a bit, made me see other sides of the races and showed me how to counter myself ^_^