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A complicated issue of sportsmanship
 

Nama dc'd during game 3 of their series and then:





Why did Azz not just resume from replay straight away? the game was apparently 5 mins from its conclusion anyway. 20mins of Azz delaying the game from being played. THEN Nama DC's again. The game could have fairly been played in this time.

Azz and Nama, I would like for you to give your recap of the situation.

ACL/Blizzard, I would like you to learn from this situation and adjust your rules so a fair outcome can be reached, such as
Players do not review the replay - admin does
Games are resumed from a fair point (before engagements, while disconnecting player was still in control of his units etc).

Thanks.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Maybe before witch hunting azz, we hear his side of the story. I'm all for azz hate, but not when it's uncalled for.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

GUYS LOOK: IT'S SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN!

BEHOLD SUCH A RARE SIGHT ON THIS WEBSITE!

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Just FYI with this, I don't think the result should change and I understand that if Nama was afk too long the 2nd time, he should very well have been walked over.I just want to make this an issue so ACL adds into their rules that if disconnection they wait 10-15 mins for reconnection and then resume from replay at a fair point in the game (before engagements if DC during engagement etc) or at the point the disconnecting player dropped APM and started to lag out. Azz shouldn't have been able to delay the resume from replay by so long either.

There was about 30 mins or so of Azz arguing with Admins about when the replay should have been resumed, apparently the game was resumed and Azz wasn't happy with the point at which the game resumed so he left the game (can constitute a loss imo). idc about Azz, it was a bit of a dog act.. but the real reason I wanted to write this blog is to get ACL to adjust their rules and be fair. No offence to ACL or any of the admins, there was no precedence. But there is now, learn from it.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Please accept from the admins decision to award me the win because Namakaye was offline for too long. Azure had to wait 2 hours+ for his next match.

EDIT: Removed content to keep the conversation neutral.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

One question at ChadMann: Have you watched the replay?

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

In the rules it states.. A win, a resume from replay or a restart completely azz apparently wanted a complete restart

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

To be fair though it was bad sportsmanship. If you disagree you need to justify yourself.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

[4:37:47 PM] x5Namakaye: i come back and he refuses to resume from replay
[4:38:02 PM] x5Namakaye: admin comes in and we show him the replay stuff and all that
[4:38:09 PM] x5Namakaye: admin sides with me on the time of dc
[4:38:19 PM] x5Namakaye: azz keeps pressuring the admin to give him the win

Its fine to take the win after the 2nd DC.. but all that lead up is very, very poor form. Azure had to wait half of that time because you refused to resume from replay at a fair point.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

If you want to discuss the issue with me then you can initiate a topic or conversation asking whether I am able to share my story.

EDIT: Removed content to keep the conversation neutral.

Will mention that the poor form mentioned was removed by Chadmann which was appreciated.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

You still haven't explained why you made the decisions you did. Stop dodging and answer the questions.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Sent report for inappropriate content in this thread.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

9.12 If any player is disconnected from a game, they are required to wait for a tournament administrator to verify the situation and make one of the following decisions depending on the nature of the disconnect:

Restart of the game from the beginning.

Use "Recover Game" to start from an administrator designated point in time.
Declare a winner or a forfeit.

In case of the situation where both players are unable to win the game, tournament organizer will declare a draw and the game will be replayed.

9.13 Per competition day, each player will be given a 10 minute exception for Battle.net disconnections. Players with multiple disconnections may be given a forfeit at the organizer’s discretion.

http://wcs2015.aclpro.com.au/rules/

http://media.blizzard.com/wcs/wcs-pl...ook-v1.1.0.pdf

Gotta be 10 minutes all together then

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

9.10 Players who intentionally quit a Game before it has ended without a tournament organizer’s permission will concede the Game.

^ If that rule is applied, Nama wins 2-1.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

The result was already applied before that point

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Are you saying, Azz already got the walkover before Resume game was used?

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

EDIT: Removed content to keep the conversation neutral.

No players left the game mid-way.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Games should be resumed at a fair point to both players or just restarted.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Here's sequence of events afaik

Azz vs Nama G3, I've heard conflicting accounts on how this game was gonna go. Namakaye ahead overall but Azz about to crush his army with some good positioning or something?

Azz contacts admin about the dc

(Namakaye watches replay maybe? Azz was pretty hung up on the idea that Azz wouldn't get that good engagement anymore after Namakaye saw the replay)

Namakaye comes back and they get ready to resume the game.

Namakaye dcs again and Azz is awarded the walkover.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

If what soundwave says is true nothing wrong with what has happened if chadmanns post is right then azz should've been dqd

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Sweet, thanks for clearing up.

I guess, its up to the admins to decide when the game is to be resumed and not the players. If you disagree, then you could/should have to forfeit.

Totally understand with the DC's. Thats not the issue I see here.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

Honestly after hearing all of the accounts, this sounds like the most likely course of events. To play devils advocate for a moment, although it sounds like Azz wasnt particularly sportsmanlike or accomodating, I agree with the ruling for the following reasons:

1. It's not Azz's fault Nama dc'd

2. As soon as theres a disagreement about who was ahead/how the game was going, the replay is watched and it isn't fair on Azz to have to resume from there now his opponent has more information than previously.

3. A restarted game would be the best option imo after a replay was watched, but then another DC happens (again not Azz's fault)

Awarding the win to Azz is unfortunate in these circumstances but given these details it's the right call to make.

Re: The Death of Sportsmanship
 

The final decision is not the issue.

The issue is, Azz refused to resume the game at a fair point. Admin did not have the position to force the decision to be "resume from here or restart the game".

Going by SC2SEA Chat Archive:

Today 4:05 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) azz wants the def win
Today 4:06 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) ok admin says recover
Today 4:09 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) ok now he doesnt accept the recover cause the default pulled it back like literally 1 second
Today 4:21 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) hes saying the few seconds make a difference
Today 4:21 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) despite the DC occuring after running and the resume occuring during running
Today 4:21 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) and i dont get a chance to micro so all my units die cause of dc
Today 4:22 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) so i dont understand why hes wasting all this time then
Today 4:25 PM: x5_Namakaye: (Edit · Delete) lol azz disconnecting from the replay

4:05 -> 4:25 = 20mins of Azz delaying the game from being played. THEN Nama DC's again. The game could have fairly been played in this time

Then Azz leaves the replay BEFORE the walk over was awarded for Nama being offline. This constitutes a loss to Azz under Rule: 9.10 Players who intentionally quit a Game before it has ended without a tournament organizer’s permission will concede the Game.

This is the issue.

This issue is NOT Azz taking the walk over after Namakaye disconnected the 2nd time, that is fair and understandable. Especially since Azz had held up the tournament by over 20 minutes.

I understand this is only one account of the situation, I invite you to provide yours, Azz. Namakaye is a trusted member of this community and I respect his word highly.

Re: A complicated issue of sportsmanship
 

The last post of Chadmann needs to be updated to state that viewing a replay with an Admin was not in any way shape or form that we were planning to continue the game from the replay the admin requested to view.

'9.10 Players who intentionally quit a Game before it has ended without a tournament organizer’s permission will concede the Game.'

I can say that I was at a LAN and someone bumped the cords or such and there was a brief net disconnect of 30 seconds whilst we were watching the replay. Definitely no intention to leave or quit a game (let alone a replay).

Hopefully this clears some things up.

Pls don't flame me as this was a big communication misunderstanding and there were lots of factors involved such as:
Replay restart time:
- Players viewing replays
- Admin Decisions
- Disconnects
- Timing of Disconnects
- Difference in Restore
- A lot of Assumptions
- Tournament Rules
- Other

There was a communication issue between me, Nama, the restore point and the Admin, because when Nama DCd the first time, it looked as if he was about to lose the game entirely. As such after waiting 5+ minutes (cant say how long really) I requested the Admin to make a decision as it looked pretty much. Eventually it was all sorted out in terms of a decision being made (I wasn't happy at first but understood) to proceed with the restore. At this time Nama DCd again and wasn't able to hop online quick enough.

Re: A complicated issue of sportsmanship
 

Tournament rules should be changed so if there is a DC, both players jump straight into the resumed game at a point before any engagement. If both players agree to regame, then they can start from the beginning OR by admin decision after viewing the replay.

SC2 has a recover game option for a reason! No need to dispute this, just recover the game at a fair stage in the game and continue playing. there was still 20 minutes wasted where either the game could have been recovered or Nama and Azz could have entirely replayed the map. Competitors need to understand it is their responsibility to play their matches promptly and allow tournaments to flow and not be held up by lower bracket games.

Re: A complicated issue of sportsmanship
 

Coming in as a neutral party to give my 2c.

The admin's decision should be final. If it was called as a walkover, it should be left as a walkover and forgotten about. If you're successful in turning around the final decision, more people would be inclined to create threads in the future to protest/contest the admin's decision. I feel at any point, if anyone DCs, the game should only be allowed to be replayed/resumed if BOTH players agree on it. Disconnecting is not the fault of the other player, he shouldn't be entitled to replay/resume. He should retain the right to refuse a replay/resume. Unfortunate as it may be, it's too open to abuse. In the time where the admin is reviewing the replay, the players have the time to quickly review the replay to gain an added advantage (ie, overlord scout dies before seeing anything and player DCs immediately in order to see what the overlord missed, DCing to view BO history, DCing to delay time so the other person might not have time to complete games, etc). Restarting the game also isn't a surefire way to correct the issue as one may have an inkling of the build the other may go. Rules were created to minimize the potential for abuse. I haven't seen the tournament rules, but most of them usually state that rules can be subjected to change at any point by the tournament organizers. If that was in there, this should be brought up to the admin and not in public.

Regarding the matter on sportsmanship, I remember the time I hosted a huge tournament and a few people REFUSED walkovers until I had to force it upon them because it went way over schedule and the other players were tired of waiting, good old days.