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Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

EDIT**
No this isn't a balance whine, I'm actually pretty ok with the way hellbats currently function in the ZvT match-up. And my rant only includes ZvT really. I think this change does help the PvT and TvT match-ups.


This change actually doesn't help ZvT that much, and you should still fear the hellbat drop, heres why:

The main issue at high levels with the hellbat drop is that they were so fearful and potent, zerg (any race really) would box their entire worker line and pull it away in fear of those flame throwing bastards.

This would cause massive losses in mining time, regardless of how many drones you might lose (usually very few at high levels of play)

Even if you shut the medivac down, it is not a big investment by the terran player (300 minerals, 100 gas). But this small investment would cause you to lose a LOT of mining time with 2-3 medivacs patrolling around. This ability to pin the zergs back also made terrans extremely safe, allowing them to do pretty much whatever they wan't back at home.

The other issue when facing these drops is the follow-up push with ~6-8 hellbats and a bunch of MMM, before your third really gets up, before spire is out, and before you can gain a significant upgrade advantage.

None of the issue with this hellbat nerf really change how we currently deal with hellbats.

You will still pull all you workers away when the hellbats come into your base. Yes the hellbats take 3 shots to kill a worker instead of 2, but that only gives you around a ~1 second window to STILL pull all your workers, which good players would do ANYWAY, and thus resulting in the circumstances I mentioned above. Hellbats, regardless of this nerf, still 2 shot lings, and still do the same damage to banelings as banelings aren't light units, so the follow up push is still going to be as strong.

So to summarise, you should still be very afraid of hellbat drops and follow up timings and Terrans, you should still be executing them.

EDIT 2**
I'm typically speaking to very high levels of play, Top GM, tournament winners etc, who TYPICALLY (no not always) see the drops coming and pull their workers in time. Secondly, this change actually rewards sloppier play, as it gives zergs more time to react and pull their workers, when they should have been watching their minimap and seen the drop coming!

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Makes 2 medivac 4 hellbat drops signficantly easier to deal with, assuming your numbers are correct :P

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Thanks Kez, I was all excited for this patch making ZvT a lot simpler, but you've really put it into perspective for me hahahaha.
Nice blog, definitely still going to me fearing the hellbat drops!

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Because of the bansheee buff, i think more blind spores would be made. With spores in the mineral line, the hellbat drops cant be dropped more than twice because the medivac will die the 2nd time it drops. Probably wont be as big of an impact as expected but still a good buff imo

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Yeah, I agree - I think this patch will do a pretty decent job of diversifying TvT without really touching TvZ. It will effect TvP a fair bit though - hellbats will take 9 shots to kill zealots, up from 5. This means fast mech pushes are either going to be a lot weaker vs zealots or one tank short to get blueflame, and mixing in a few hellbats with bio will be nowhere near as good... not sure how I feel about that.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

We'll have to wait a few weeks and see what the Kespa Terrans decide to cook up... and then copy them immediately onto ladder!

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Hellbats in large numbers will still roast everything...wahahahahaha

and nice to see the Banshee getting some love

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

I for one love this. Early hellbat has been my bain in tvp for ages; completely nullifying a unit sucks, now at least zealots stand a small chance.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Zealots stand a chance...until lategame >

I'd love to see Banshees making a comeback in TvZ and TvP but with the no evo for spore crawlers change I don't think they'll be that effective in harassing as hellbats D:

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

With this change I definitely think you'll be seeing more banshees tvp (more likely cheesy sort of banshee plays). You wont in tvz however because 1 spore effectively shuts down (cloak) banshee play. And 1-3 banshees don't pin back the zerg player from being aggressive nearly as much as 1-2 hellbat drops do

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Banshees are underused atm in zvt not because of cloak but just that reaper openings, hellbat builds and being safe with mines prevent you from getting the early banshees out. This change won't make people go banshees because of the buff but moreso because hellbats are worse, especially considering how good banshees are vs roach timings they could be pretty strong right now.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

Removing the ability of hellbats to be healed by medivacs is the first thing Blizzard should have fixed. They're idiots.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

@Nxz I think it's cauz roach hydra timings are much better and with hydra speed can come much quicker, so a banshee opening would be very vulnerable

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

No you won't. Nexus cannon + viable stargate openers means even if banshees had cloak built in for free you still wouldn't see the bloody things being used in the mu.

The only two viable harass options in PvT are mines and Hellbats. Mines are very cheap and only need to get a shot off to be worth it generally, and when combined with boost hellbats almost always got in and from there do good damage. Now it will only be mines.

The nexus cannon continues to be oppressive and unfun for Terran players and the hellbat nerf in general just makes Terran a weaker race vs Protoss. Which I personally hate because my TvP suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks

I think you'll see Banshee hellion openers return in TvZ. Terrans still did them tons in wings even though you never really caught competent zergs without spore crawlers because they could keep creep spread back, they give huge map control/dominance until mutas show up and with good control you can still get quite reasonable drone damage through. (admittedly I think one of the real reasons you saw Banshee hellion so often was because most TvZ builds sucked and this was the least sucky of the bunch but that would be a digression. Thank ******* god it's not 2012 TvZ anymore)

TvT is gonna be gas first cloakbanshee wars for at least a solid week or so. The only reason why cloakshee openers sucked isn't because the unit is bad it's more that hellbat openers are better it's perfectly reasonable priced at 200/200 and at 100/100 it's gonna be pretty ****** nasty.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

i foresee me losing every tvp sighhh

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

I hope terrans mass banshee, do et. Just make one actually, dats already good for us.

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

dont you already? Kappa

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

at least i am not in mGG

Re: Public service announcement to Zergs regarding patch
 

As stated by blizzard, this change was made purely to add variation to the current TvT match up, personally I think it will encourage more bio play as either early banshee will have to be countered by marine in some situations. Unless the bio player rushes a star port for early viking defense which is unlikely and also because the Hell bats will have to spend longer killing things. Which means that any early game mineral line harass which is against any kind of defense, either a turret or bunker with marines or even just marines have a much better chance at cleaning up. Which should result in a more cost efficient trade than the current, possibly even favoring the defender in most circumstances. Hopefully this means that Terran no longer has to tech to hellions/vikings as early as they have been meaning that a heavier mineral based opening is much more viable for transitioning into bio.