SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

Community needs it.
 

The Clan war community, Platinum and Diamond divisons to be precise.
Perhaps even BSG.

But what i'm asking for here, is if there is a permanent ruling on clan war's players?
As in; If I was masters two seasons ago, But finished Plat/Dia last season and am currently Plat/Dia, can I play in a PD clan war?

If there isn't a "set in stone" ruling for this, I would like to put forward that any PD managers in clans that read this put their 2 cents below and start a discussion so that we can develop a set of guidelines for these clan wars.



Yes, this issue does come to my attention from the recent AxS vs ETL clan war.
Where a player 4-killed.
The player is currently plat, was diamond last season, and masters the season before.

I'm not wanting an argument over that shit here, just a rules discussion.


Here's my opinion;

If a player finished low 2 seasons ago and has been / he should be allowed to play.
If a player finishes top 25 masters 3-4 seasons ago but has been / ever since, he should be allowed to play.
If he has finished top 8 in ANY season regardless of race change, he should not be allowed to play at / level clan wars.

This goes without saying that if your player is one of the above, you MUST clarify and agree upon this with the other clan manager.


I hope that this blog has some positive feedback and we can brainstorm even more ideas for the future of clan wars.
It's getting rather ugly, and I haven't really enjoyed reading some of the "feedback" at times.

Looking forward to your ideas!

Re: Community needs it.
 

Personally... From my point of view clan wars are like practice games.. In clan tournaments or tournaments with money on the line, I think stricter rules are good...

Anyway.

Must play as race ranked on SEA ladder
SEA account must be active (40 games a season ? Obvious exceptions for people who have gone away / moved house)
Go by current ladder rank or rank in last two season (whichever is higher)
Exception to all of the above granted by both captains in agreement...

My main objective is to get the games happening, to let people have fun. So if the opposition hve a guy who was masters two season ago, but was low masters and is clearly active and struggling in diamond or even plat now, I'd most likely allow them to play as a diamond

Edit: Obviously when doing an M/GM clan war, being active on SEA isnt as important...
Also we should be open about ranks on other servers, if someone is actively masters on another server, they shouldnt play in PD

Re: Community needs it.
 

As I was saying in chatbox before, you don't lose that much skill not playing for a few months. If a player was Masters back in say, 2011-mid 2012 then sure, play them for a GPD clan war, but if a player was Masters within the last year or so I say they shouldn't be allowed to play GPD, because they're only 50 games or so away from getting their old skill back.

If they reached Masters by some fluke and despite repeated ladder attempts have been stuck in mid Diamondish, I'd say that's fine too.

EDIT: @ BenAD I actively encourage ETL's players to not play on SEA, so don't use SEA ladder as a basis for anything. Being open about their activity on other servers is good though, but relies a lot on trust.

Re: Community needs it.
 

Yes Ben I agree with the other servers rule 100%

Some very good feedback, will make a notepad file now!

Re: Community needs it.
 

Generally the only reason someone drops out of masters is inactivity; when the player actively plays they get back into masters relatively fast. If a player drops out of masters legitimacy playing and actively ladders for 2 seasons and still hasnt returned then sure that player is probably Diamond level. A player who goes away for a few months, finds himself demoted and plays a few games shouldn't be considered the demoted rank for at least a season after returning.

Re: Community needs it.
 

Assumedly, most clans have some kind of internal ranking system. If there's someone who is ranked on ladder, but is consistently beating level players in clan practice, then surely they shouldn't be allowed to play. At the end of the day, all friendly clan wars (yes, even / ) should be treated as an exercise, a chance for players to play in a setting where they are playing for their team, and representing their team. Sure, it looks awesome when you have one player beat a bunch of players in the opposing team with ease, but it's better to have teams being evenly matched and seeing some closely fought and well played series.

Re: Community needs it.
 

A player hitting masters and going 1-4 one season and 5-6 (going off the battle-net profile I can see for the player in question) the next given the current ladder policy where it is giving conservative placements and then promoting active players doesn't seem like a statistically large enough sample size for the ladder to know their rating.

The new system where a lot of people are put down a league on placement will cause more problems with these kinds of things than before. Because a lot of people can claim they were active and legitimately demoted, but for all we know are just 2 wins off being back in masters.

But there's no fair way to tell without discriminating against inactive players.

Re: Community needs it.
 

We had a player who used to play SC2 actively named Halt. He was a very good player for us in GPD clan wars and he barely EVER laddered. I encouraged him to ladder and eventually, despite still being Diamond, was beating players like Lobo. I stopped letting him play GPD clan wars because his skill was clearly above GPD despite his league still allowing him to play.

What I'm saying is just be honest. Smurfing and having a Masters smash a bunch of Platinums and Diamonds accomplishes nothing. Clan wars are for fun and improving your own players of that league, which smurfing actively prevents.

Re: Community needs it.
 

honestly we should be going off NA ladder at this point

Re: Community needs it.
 

I gather that we can agree upon;
If there's a legitimate reason why they're not masters anymore they can be eligible, and no matter what rank they were in masters, a 10-12 month cap is placed down.
So if they were masters 9 months ago, they can't play.

We can also use NA as a guideline to the ranking history, that seems fair.
KR is all over the place though.
EU, well, not too many SEA players are active there.

Re: Community needs it.
 

I think there is definitely a difference between someone who was masters 6 months ago and is just coming back and just got ranked in diamond, and someone who was masters 6 months ago and has played 100 games this season and is diamond.

I would let the latter player play, I wouldnt let the first (as you say it doesnt take long for the skill to come back if they were high/legit masters.)

Yeah I know alot of my players are going onto other servers.. and this is going to become a massive issue... I already think SEA gold is way harder then platinum used to be 6 months ago... Our players are playing more in other servers and yet we still base SEA ranks as the ranking for pretty much all clan wars...

I guess we can just do a blanket active league condition, but again as you say, we are relying totally on trust... But if you arent active on SEA, we already are relying on that...

Re: Community needs it.
 

I think if you're a former masters player and now in diamond and have played 150+ games and haven't been promoted yet (which you most likely should be within 25-50 games if you're still at masters skill level) you should be allowed to play, doesn't matter how many season you're inactive for but if you can prove that after 150 or so games you are still at diamond then for sure go and play in a diamond tournament.

Re: Community needs it.
 

There's something innately flawed in the logic that ladder rank = skill level. If you want it to be fair, why not just make some kind of ELO system for every SEA player...

Re: Community needs it.
 

ill let you set that up

Re: Community needs it.
 

I was under the impression this already happens? wow if it isn't.

Re: Community needs it.
 

There is a very big skill issue between Gold - Diamond on SEA which makes using SEA hard to judge. I mostly played NA last season (after getting Diamond very early on in sea); Got demoted to gold this season. At the moment I cant tell the difference in skill between the Diamonds im facing on NA verses the Golds and Plats im facing on SEA (The Diamonds on sea tend to feel around the same skill level as mid-high Diamonds).

If a ladder needs to be used for, NA is most likely more accurate

Re: Community needs it.
 

Id actually really like something like that in general, just cause then Id see all these stats and things like that (as you'd need to store all matches etc).

But Im a stats geek....

Re: Community needs it.
 

I hope they do unranked vs unranked clan wars

Re: Community needs it.
 

Yes, in theory it's exactly what would solve all the problems that everyone seems to have. BUT in practice it's far too much effort and just a silly notion overall because no one really cares enough to actually do anything. People will just keep bickering and complaining over semantics because that's all people really do around here.

Re: Community needs it.
 

I dont tell my guys to actively ladder on NA, they might, but Ive been following the rule of has to be active on SEA, like most tournaments at the lower level suggest.

Im happy to do change everyone to playing on NA, but Im always on SEA as are most of my players.

If I could see who was on each server and have the ability for the clan system to span all servers, that would be amazing...

Re: Community needs it.
 

Shh, then it wont happen and I wont get my glorious stats

But yeah it wouldnt solve this issue...

Re: Community needs it.
 

Well i've scratched together some stuff -
(NOT SAYING I'M THE OFFICIAL RULES MAN)

Activity -
Activity is determined by looking at the players most active server.
40 games in current season (wherever they're active, NA or SEA).

Dropped out of masters -
If the master dropped out of masters less than 10 (down from 12) months ago, they are not allowed to play.

If they switched race and have been plat/dia for the past 4 (down from 6) months with an active ladder schedule they are allowed to play.

Can I play if the leaders agree?
Sure you can, if you've passed the above guidelines and THEN the managers/leaders agree upon you playing in the clan war, then go for it.

Re: Community needs it.
 

Seems fine to me.

Re: Community needs it.
 

12 months/6 months is a long time to wait to prove that you've "legitimately" demoted. SC2 is only 3 years old in it's entirety.
Honestly, any high diamond player is just as close to masters as that ex-masters guy who got demoted last week.

I honestly don't know why people don't just treat it as good practice. It's not like anyone even gets any kind of prize for these clan wars. It's pretty obvious if a really good player leaves 50 games in a row to get demoted to play.

Re: Community needs it.
 

Seems good, except I would say leaders can agree to exceptions in all cases, not just if they pass the above...

Re: Community needs it.
 

There's just too many grey areas in the PD clan wars, I really think guidelines like these would actually help leaders, even in a small way.

So many disagreements, like ours, would have been COMPLETELY negated thanks to this.