[ROOTProbe]

I am a Gold Protoss, and moving up the ranks of Starcraft 2 (thank goodness). As I play more games, I've noticed that my PvP isn't up to scratch, and to be frank, the main reason is my current build order (currently 4 gating). Can anyone give me a solid build to practice?

Thanks

[Stallion]

9 pylon 12 gate*scout here 14 gas 15 second pylon 16 cyber 17 zealot 20 second gas
now for here you do do a few different things depending on if he is taking a 2nd gas or not
if not 3 gate zealot stalker stalker sentry (1 chrono on first stalker) to hold the four gate(put 3 workers on 2nd gas for more sentrys after you make the gates) and hide the probe you are scouting with to c what he trys to do after you defend his 4 gate
if he takes the second gas you can go either blink or robo depending on the map
OR if he takes an 18 second gas dt him into 4 gate charge as taking the second gas that early generally indicates phenox builds. Bit ballsy but works :P hope this helps gl hf gg BROTOSS HWAITING

[mGGAequitas]

doing the same build every single time is not good, which is why you are having trouble in pvp, mirror match ups are especially dependent on scouting and on reactionary builds which is why you will lose most games if you are just doing the same thing.
I recommend paying special attention to what you are scouting an expansion? stargate? robo? lots of gates? and think about what you should do to gain an advantage, take an expo? zealots? sentries? immortals? etc.
whenever you lose watch the replay from your pov, and try and guess what he has/ what he is going at several points in the game and what you should have done to get the lead. so next time you see someone doing the same thing you will know exactly how to react.

[Rythos]

This is the build I've been using for most of my PvP's. It can hold against a 4gate, gets detection out in time for most DT plays and seems to hit a pretty nice timing against expansion builds.

Against a 4gate the idea is to forcefield to delay the push until your Immortal gets out. Letting a couple of units up the ramp so you can pick them off can be a good idea, but if they are dropping pylons on the low ground within range of your base you have to just forcefield it out completely.

The main losses I seem to have are against 4gates where I screw up the forcefields, Stargate plays and against other robo builds where I engage poorly.

Bear in mind I am only a Gold league scrub myself, so there's potentially plenty wrong with this build, but it has been going pretty well for me so far.

9 Pylon
-Scout
-Chronoboost Nexus after Pylon finishes
13 Gateway
14 Assimilator
-Chronoboost Nexus
16 Pylon
17 Cybernetics Core
18 Zealot
21 Assimilator
22 Warpgate (Chronoboost almost constantly, save some energy for the Immortal later)
22 Stalker
24 Pylon (skip a probe)
25 Gateway
26 Sentry
29 Robotics Facility
-cut probes
29 Sentry
31 Pylon
31 Stalker from 2nd Gatway
33 Immortal (Chronoboost x2)
-from here only produce zealots from your warpgates
~45 Observer after Immortal finishes
@200 gas Robotics Bay
Start Colossus Range as soon as Robotics Bay Finishes
@200 gas Colossus (Chronoboost x2)
~66 2nd Colossus (Chronoboost x2)
-Switch back to producing Stalkers from your warpgates
Your second Colossus will finish with Colossus Range, wait a few seconds for one last warp-in then move out. If you haven't lost anything your army should be something like:

11 Zealots
2 Sentries
6 Stalkers
1 Immortal
2 Colossi

glhf!

Quick Comments

	ToRVenom:	Gosu Strat!
	Ruski:	Nice, will have to try this one

[Another]

Originally Posted by iRLProAnnn

Actually there no called 'build order win' but certain build order gives you a HUGE advantage over others. Like if you decide to go 3 gate blink allin(yes i know noone do that nowadays just an example) against a 3 gate DT build, you will literally die to the dts as you have ZERO detection.

There are actually 3 major type of builds in PvP.

1 gate into tech (Relies heavily on sentries to def the ramp while you get your desired tech out)
3 gate into tech (Much safer as you only rely on minimal sentries but you get your tech out slower)
4 gate (Allin!)

All of them have their on advantages. For example, the 3 gate into tech would be good against the 1 gate IF you pressure them and force some sentries and making them think you are 4 gating. While if you don't pressure, the 1 gate tech would have a tech advantage over you. 3 gate into tech i think is the BEST build as long as you get the correct read over your opponents build(see 2 gas = put pressure/ Late or no 2nd gas = defensive posture)

PvP is all about reading the 2nd gas timings, 10, 12 or 13 gate? What do i do to react to that?
Then your preference towards a certain tech and whether you like to be aggressive or defensive.

Its the same with any map, you can do builds that are all in/coin flippy, but PvP is definetly NOT a build order MU. You can do coin flippy builds (no detection/really fast expand etc) but at the end of the day there are always builds that are just strong against anything and have no coin flippyness about them.

I also disagree that PvP is all about 2nd gas/gate timing. i VERY rarely face 4gate anymore as it is such a weak build, and more face 12/13gate and early 2nd gas basically every game. PvP is all about what they tech they go. blink/DT/stargate/collosus/expand are your basic options.

Originally Posted by Rythos

This is the build I've been using for most of my PvP's. It can hold against a 4gate, gets detection out in time for most DT plays and seems to hit a pretty nice timing against expansion builds.

Against a 4gate the idea is to forcefield to delay the push until your Immortal gets out. Letting a couple of units up the ramp so you can pick them off can be a good idea, but if they are dropping pylons on the low ground within range of your base you have to just forcefield it out completely.

The main losses I seem to have are against 4gates where I screw up the forcefields, Stargate plays and against other robo builds where I engage poorly.

Bear in mind I am only a Gold league scrub myself, so there's potentially plenty wrong with this build, but it has been going pretty well for me so far.

9 Pylon
-Scout
-Chronoboost Nexus after Pylon finishes
13 Gateway
14 Assimilator
-Chronoboost Nexus
16 Pylon
17 Cybernetics Core
18 Zealot
21 Assimilator
22 Warpgate (Chronoboost almost constantly, save some energy for the Immortal later)
22 Stalker
24 Pylon (skip a probe)
25 Gateway
26 Sentry
29 Robotics Facility
-cut probes
29 Sentry
31 Pylon
31 Stalker from 2nd Gatway
33 Immortal (Chronoboost x2)
-from here only produce zealots from your warpgates
~45 Observer after Immortal finishes
@200 gas Robotics Bay
Start Colossus Range as soon as Robotics Bay Finishes
@200 gas Colossus (Chronoboost x2)
~66 2nd Colossus (Chronoboost x2)
-Switch back to producing Stalkers from your warpgates
Your second Colossus will finish with Colossus Range, wait a few seconds for one last warp-in then move out. If you haven't lost anything your army should be something like:

11 Zealots
2 Sentries
6 Stalkers
1 Immortal
2 Colossi

glhf!

I dont like one base collosus builds much for PvP, if youre opponent gets a fast scout, an early expand while teching to collosus i have found beats a one base collosus build if both palyers play well enough. ive had quite a few games where ive expanded off a 3stalker rush/robo. and then added a robo bay when scouting my opponents collosus then just winning due to defenders advantage.

I also dont like stating builds as @pop, what if he gets 4gated? this build guide isnt very useful, instead saying, "get 2 collosus with range while warping in units and building pylons and holding probe production" will mean he knows what to do if something happens early game.

Its an okay build, but pretty all in imo. ATM fastish expands seem to be the metagame of PvP

Quick Comments

Stallion:

the master of pvp speaks

[TNSkywolve]

Hey try a 3 gate robo build per base..no colo, stalker,immortals and zealots..should end the game at about 17mins mark with arnd 2-4 immortals at 2 base or perhaps earlier at 1 base(no sentries cause you need them for the immortals, don't go stalker heavy) no need to worry about your opp colo, few immortals can snipe a colo fairly easy..if your opp go for stargate..just make more stalkers 3 gate vs 1 stargate(you'll get the picture) get observer after your 1st immortal(you don need to scout with it,you need it just for vision on high ground and detection)

the build order is pretty flexible..you can go 2 gate robo to 3 gate or 3 gate 1st then robo..get your 2nd gas after your cyber has completed.. it's also advisable to get stalkers for defending when goin for this build,ZEALOTS should be your meat shield when you are ATTACKING!. its ok to get some sentries to block your ramp if your gas amount allow it(usually after you get your 3rd and 4th gas..your main army can hold off an opp early aggression fairly easy if controlled well).

pm me if you need more details
GL HF! Cya around in SC2!! ^-^

[Next_rim]

Bear in mind I am only a Gold league scrub myself, so there's potentially plenty wrong with this build, but it has been going pretty well for me so far.

Was going to post my 1-gate stargate opener that is a BO win against your build, but the read this.

No, it's a bad idea to play 1-base colossi. You are better off doing Robo-TC builds. You get blink, archon for ramp bust, and have immortals and half colossus tech for uber late game.

[FvRphoneheha]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

Was going to post my 1-gate stargate opener that is a BO win against your build, but the read this.

No, it's a bad idea to play 1-base colossi. You are better off doing Robo-TC builds. You get blink, archon for ramp bust, and have immortals and half colossus tech for uber late game.

Hm, nothing wrong with 1- base colossi. I can use it GM PvP. As Bard says, the main issue is just be the better player/scout well. So long as you do a sensible build (only 1 tech building per base, unless obs/blink| keep money low | be defensive if he's doing 4 gate), the main issue is to just be a good player ^^v.

[x5_Bard]

No such thing as a build order win in PvP. You win because you are the better player whether it be in metagaming, micro or macro. Ive played/watched countless games with robo players beating pheonix builds, blink stalkers beating immortal busts etc.

Theres nothing really wrong with 4gating, it teaches you clear decision making along with strongly emphasizing early unit control. Both of which are important if you want to improve. My advice would be to either try and improve your 4gate, which is already a strong build or look at doing a 1gate tech opener which Stallion touched on.

GL HF!

Quick Comments

Stallion:

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by nRvBard

No such thing as a build order win in PvP. You win because you are the better player whether it be in metagaming, micro or macro. Ive played/watched countless games with robo players beating pheonix builds, blink stalkers beating immortal busts etc.

Theres nothing really wrong with 4gating, it teaches you clear decision making along with strongly emphasizing early unit control. Both of which are important if you want to improve. My advice would be to either try and improve your 4gate, which is already a strong build or look at doing a 1gate tech opener which Stallion touched on.

GL HF!

Actually there no called 'build order win' but certain build order gives you a HUGE advantage over others. Like if you decide to go 3 gate blink allin(yes i know noone do that nowadays just an example) against a 3 gate DT build, you will literally die to the dts as you have ZERO detection.

There are actually 3 major type of builds in PvP.

1 gate into tech (Relies heavily on sentries to def the ramp while you get your desired tech out)
3 gate into tech (Much safer as you only rely on minimal sentries but you get your tech out slower)
4 gate (Allin!)

All of them have their on advantages. For example, the 3 gate into tech would be good against the 1 gate IF you pressure them and force some sentries and making them think you are 4 gating. While if you don't pressure, the 1 gate tech would have a tech advantage over you. 3 gate into tech i think is the BEST build as long as you get the correct read over your opponents build(see 2 gas = put pressure/ Late or no 2nd gas = defensive posture)

PvP is all about reading the 2nd gas timings, 10, 12 or 13 gate? What do i do to react to that?
Then your preference towards a certain tech and whether you like to be aggressive or defensive.

[Jaywalk]

I 4 gate every single game, still works and im up to around master MMR on NA so maybe you can refine that a bit more? there are transitions that you can learn from it as well.

[ROOTProbe]

Thanks everyone for replying, i did notice that i wasn't really looking at my opponents gas timings and just by doing this it has really helped me out. In fact i got promoted to Platinum.

Thanks

[crAzerk]

Several good suggestions have been given in this thread by some pretty good Protosses, so do try them out first.... and if you're bored and want to throw in the odd strategy (besides just ONLY 4gating), proxy 2 gate cannon rush is pretty strong.

It sounds implausible but the problem is most people panic and don't really hold it off well:
E.g. this game, my 2 gates weren't even complete when he had 2 zealots out, but I still end up winning.
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=723

Enjoy ^^ And good luck!

[Next_rim]

No such thing as a build order win in PvP. You win because you are the better player whether it be in metagaming, micro or macro. Ive played/watched countless games with robo players beating pheonix builds, blink stalkers beating immortal busts etc.

Opening greedy phoenix against 1-gate robo is too big of an advantage. Robo can pull it off, but it's very hard. If you are 1-gate robo vs phoenixes, you pretty much rely on your opponent to make mistakes. Which basically qualifies for BO loss.

[Free]

Try going 3 stalker robo and using your 3 stalkers deny their proxy pylons or delay their 4 gate ( If they're going 4 gate ) and then tech up to immortals or maybe 1 base colossi !
Build order:
9 pylon
Scout
12 gateway
14 gas
16 pylon
after gateway finishes build your cyber core
Build another gateway when your cyber core is 75% done
By now u should have at least 20 probes .
Chrono boost your first stalker out . ( Only use 1 for each stalker)
2nd assimlator
Chrono boost your second stalker out .
When your 2nd gateway finishes chronoboost the third stalker out and check your base for proxies or probes lying around .
During your third stalker queue a pylon, a robo, a gateway and build a sentry directly after this.

[ToRFutureBoy]

In my noob opinion, at a silver level, I like the idea of a 2 or 3 gate robo for immortals. Of course the level you are at will also depend on what your opponent is likely to build. For me a 4 gate is common, and I also still like 4 gating, my timing isnt the quickest so I try to get an immortals out to handle the innevitable mass stalker my opponent has.
But hey, thats juts me, as other have said, scout well and you will know what to build cause you will know the tech your opponent has. Pretty simple if you look at it that way.

Quick Comments

Stallion:

imno love it :D :P

[mGGMueX]

Something I've been thinking about as an opening in PvP is 3 stalker rush, into 2 gate stargate robo. It should be able to get an observer out in time for DTs, able to shut down a 4 gate because of the early stalkers and can pump immortals if the opponent is going blink. If the opponent goes 1 base colossus just get a couple of void rays and it's virtually a build-order win. The one thing is that there's not much it can do about an opponent going for 2-base chargelot archon, maybe just chrono boost out a second observer ASAP and go for the kill move.

[reDDevil]

When i 4gate, i leave out the second gas.

[YesEvil]

I got have plenty of ideas myself, but I would highly reccomend you try out the current blink obs build, here. With your 4 gate, I don't know exactly what you do, but a pylon to warp in on the high ground would work exceptionally well if you get vision, target sentries.

But as plenty have stated, in the end it comes down to your scouting. "Thus it is in war that the victorius strategist seeks battle only after it has been won." - Sun Tzu

Know what the enemy is doing, and deny him knowledge of what you are doing.

[Kepler]

Originally Posted by YesEvil

I got have plenty of ideas myself, but I would highly reccomend you try out the current blink obs build, here. With your 4 gate, I don't know exactly what you do, but a pylon to warp in on the high ground would work exceptionally well if you get vision, target sentries.

But as plenty have stated, in the end it comes down to your scouting. "Thus it is in war that the victorius strategist seeks battle only after it has been won." - Sun Tzu

Know what the enemy is doing, and deny him knowledge of what you are doing.

That blink build loses pretty badly to decent 4-gate, doesn't it?