[NvPinder]

One thing that's always shitted me is how god awful some people's (even top top players) simcities are. Half of them simply just dont make any sense at all and are really not hard. So, I've taken the 100% absolute best (because I said so) simcities on the 3 best forge FE maps in the map pool and posted up a guide on how to do them

Notes about this guide:

• In none of the walls (except tal'darim, where it's unavoidable) is the pylon vulnerable, only the higher hp buildings are vulnerable.

• In all simcities the 1 cannon covers all your buildings from lings

• The gateway i have not placed, but am trying to build over the top of the simcities, completely wall off the wall (for example, vs early pools, you may need to build 2 gates to fully wall yourself to allow time for the cannon to get up), the actual build positioning shown is a 1-hex gap which a zealot blocks. Hopefully this makes sense when you look at the pictures themself

• I've included a small guide of how to place the pylon without ******* it up in each one, since thats the easiest thing to **** up with these sim cities

+ [Shake-your-ass-plat-yo] +

bottom left

Top left

Top right

Bottom right


Placing the pylon:
You want to place the pylon as close to, but without touching the edge of the highground, there is only 1 perfect sweetspot for this for each position, too close and you will block the spot where you put your cybercore, too far and you wont be able to build the forge/gate hugging the wall.
RIGHT WAY:

WRONG WAYS:

+ [Cloud Kingdom] +

Top right:

Bottom Left:


Placing the pylon: Very similar to shakurus logic, you want your pylon radius as close to the cliffs, without actually touching them.

RIGHT WAY:

WRONG WAYS:

+ [TD alter] +

Bottom left

Top left

Top right

Bottom right


Placing the pylon
This is the easiest map to fuckup the pylon placement. You basically want to imagine your forge going here:

With the edge of the forge 1hex overlap with the 'corner' of the yellow build grid like that, it should not be tucked into the gap, just touching the edge of the corner with 1-hex overlap.

The pylon then wants to have its whole side (2 hexes touching) the other corner of the forge, as shown here and in the other sim cities:

As i said higher, this pylon will actually end up be SLIGHTLY vulnerable (i think one ling can hit it, which means banes CAN hit it), you want to take extra care vs bane busts on this map, and want to build your second pylon behind your wall to prevent roach all-ins sniping your vulnerable pylon and dragging you to frown town.

So enjoy, and please just copy these and stop me from wanting to rip my eyeballs out whenever I watch your streams.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	Nice! <3
	Eddie:
	nirvAnA:	awesome stuff
	FlashVeno:	love this.. thanks
	xGKingdelete:
	Stallion:	thank you i shall study the tda one
	TAriiChard:
	inFeZa:	+ Rep for you! Love to see more - especially building walls in the 3rds and building placement in the main.
	Nemo:	Thanks ! Very interesting
	DeNile:
	Jaywalk:	the perfect mix of breaking me down and raising me up emotionally
	Fr0nti3r:
	ZC.EvilSWAT:	Thank you good sir!
	Delraich:	Really helpful - can we sticky it?
	Mezza:	Good stuff. And yes, sticked.
	Champi:	DesRow Im'ma let u finnish, but Pinder got some of the best simcity OF ALL TIME!
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	u just got heaps reddited
	iM yang:
	NvRossi:	good stuff
	Dox:	amazing
	simon:	very najs
	nGenLight:
	cruxBsK:	this is awesome nice one pinder
	breadfan:	you are MAGNIFICENT, +1 sticky
	[TA]LoSt:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	pXAero:	******* OBVIOUSLY touching, dickhead hahaha love it
	Fourby:	ivebeendoingitwrong.jpeg
	Heady:
	Maynarde:	Rep - better late than never
	neon:
	rizE:	is good ja
	EveJeonSa:
	dKiWi:
	ToRDeathsFang:
	ToRVenom:
	FSBenAD:
	Rythos:	So good. ty ty ty.
	FvRphoneheha:	SO DAMN HELPFUL <3 for this
	QEDMazaire:
	mGGSouth:
	AxS.Sorathez:	I've been doing it wrong :O (but at least not retard :P)
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	mGGNemesis:	tyty :D

[Bash]

Taldarim link isnt working (for me atleast)
10/10 though, i always screw these up. thanks dude!

[x5_Potter]

Yeah Tal'darim just links back to top of page... Don't even know why I'm looking, silver terran ftw

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Bash

Taldarim link isnt working (for me atleast)
10/10 though, i always screw these up. thanks dude!

Yeah i noticed that, it bugged out, i changed the name of the spoiler and it seemed to have fixed it.

edit: if you can read this post, and the tal'darim link still isnt working, f5 and try it again, if it still isnt working let me know.

Quick Comments

Bash:

:D

[Asrathiel]

Thank you muchly for that!

[TAavanar]

thank you for this pindiddy, i know that i have more than once put my starting pylon in the you're a retard position.

[Maynarde]

I can't rep you cause I've done it recently, but goddamn this guide is sick thanks JP

[TAcawkballs]

haha nice thread buddy.

[TAminimat]

Nice, whenever I play toss and FFE I always **** up the pylon. Also this is like top 4 or something on reddit.

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

"shake-your-ass-plat-yo"

I actually took a while to get that lol.

[Mezza]

Stickied it, because I can.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Great guide JP. Suggest you change your signature to reflect the fact that you aren't arcMSI pinder no more.

[Champi]

Hey all

I was really happy to see Pinder make this thread to show everyone how its done.

FFE simcity is something i've always been really anal about aswell, ever since pinder showed me how to simcity my walls properly, i too have been cringing at other players (especially the GSL players) who wall off differently to pinder.

As you are well aware, there are only 3 maps he has taught us how to FFE effectively on, this is because (as far as i know) in his opinion, the maps: Shattered Temple, Korhal Compound, Metalopolis, Antiga Shipyard, and the recently removed Xel'Naga Caverns, are not viable maps to forge expand on

And I agree completely. Yes, we have seen many games of top level protoss players doing forge expands on these maps, and sometimes they have worked, but other times they have failed miserably, and after practicing some simcitys on these maps for a few days with my practice partners. I stand firm by my conclusion that if you manage to hold an allin from a zerg with a FFE on one of these maps, then the zerg made a mistake in his attack, and it is their fault they lost.

Whether you agree or disagree with my stance on this is against the point however, because the real reason I am making this post is because our friend pinder has missed a map. The very new, and very unexplored Entombed Valley.

+ Show +

I don't know why pinder has not chosen to share FFE sim city on this map, as i havn't spoken to him about it, but i assume it is because he either:

a) has not explored it, or
b) because he believes it to be unsafe, and prone to failure like the other maps.

If it is reason (a) then hopefully what I am about to show you helps you against zergs on this map when you are laddering!

but if it is reason (b) then you may not see me around anymore, due to pinder having killed me this friday at the TA retreat for being a giant moonstar and sharing retarded simcity advice! :P

Below are screenshots of me showing how to simcity a Forge Expand on Entombed Valley following the same principles as the forge expands showed by Pinder on shak, TDA, and CK. They obviously do not depict the order of which you build these buildings in a real game, but it will show you exactly where to place your pylons and cannon to give you perfect protection against any early zerling, baneling, or roach aggression.

Hopefully it is easy to understand well enough simply by looking at the screenshots in order of 2.1 to 2.4. But as long as you have already studied the OP of the simcity for the other maps you should be fine.

NOTE: I actually took about 18 screenshots all up, showing different spawn location positions, and how to walloff completely instead of leaving a gap for a zealot (as some people like to do that, then kill off a building later to move out), and also where to put extra cannons to defend cheeky roach attacks from the sides of the ramp, but i felt that this post was big enough as it is, so if you're interested in all of the screenshots i encourage you to PM me on here or B.net and i will send them to you, as it will most probably clear up any questions or concerns you might have that these 4 screenshots may not answer.

Otherwise i hope you guys are all benefitted by this, as i am confident, after playing many zergs on ladder on this map, that it is a safe, and solid opening (providing you double scout and know how to correctly respond to all the different types of cheese and allins zerg may try)

Once again, big thanks to Pinder for this guide, and look forward to seeing him and the rest of the Nv Team attend MLG this year, and join me in cheering them on as they show the world the best SEA has to offer in sc2

Much love

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	Good job chap!
	cR.spider8]:	Yeah get dem zergs.
	nirvAnA:

[cruxBsK]

This is posted on redit too quite high up there.

[ROOT`iaguz]

I think this should be on the front page. Whilst stickying does make it last longer, the fact it cannot be viewed directly from the front page hurts it.

EDIT- no wait I'm a derp, someone just has to keep bumping it that's not how stickies work.

[JoFritzMD]

I'm always getting dragged to frowntown because of retard pylons

[Next_rim]

May I add another tip?

When you start your wall, after pylon is up, start away from cliff. That way, if 6-pool comes, you will have an option to use your base cliff to create a secondary wall if zerg chews through it (especially trie for Cloud Kingdom).

+ [Example (kind of)] +

Here, if zerg attacked top gateway, he'd finish it before cannon was up, and I would have no chance to create a secondary wall.



However, imagine my forge was actually my warping gate. In this game, zerg destroyed my forge, but I successfully used the cliff as a blocker, and warped secondary wall.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Thanks

[rizE]

JP - The peoples hero.

only guide ive found usefull on the net so far no shit

[crAzerk]

Add more ideal simcities for other maps too please!

[Snx`Azz]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

One thing that's always shitted me is how god awful some people's (even top top players) simcities are. Half of them simply just dont make any sense at all and are really not hard. So, I've taken the 100% absolute best (because I said so) simcities on the 3 best forge FE maps in the map pool and posted up a guide on how to do them.

I thought I might help by posting a replay of you using your simcity:
http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=758

Not hard after all.

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	.
	syfChadMann:	He's trying to help.. Your trying to be a douche.
	TADivinity:	Hay, remember that time you shit-talked, got into a showmatch, and then got your ass handed to you? I do.
	[TA]LoSt:	come on man
	TAriiChard:	haha funny ...................... no
	simon:	sad
	NvRossi:	trying too hard
	TAEdarus:	What Divinity said. It aint all about the Ass. I mean, Azz.