After emailing Challonge about if there was any way to remove the privileges of players updating their own scores so only admin's can do so their response was as follows:
"We're currently working on this and other permission features, so it shouldn't be too long before you can do this. In the meantime, you can add participants without usernames/emails to have complete control over them. The downside of this is no match notifications or avatars."
As a result I will be manually adding each name to the Challonge bracket so only admin's will have access to reporting scores.
We will trial it this week and see it's effectiveness. If successful it will be fully implemented.
Please note due to popular community demand wT Weeklies will now be
SEA RESIDENTS ONLY wT Majors will still be open internationally.
It was left wT in honour of the clan and its origins. When I was admin I had the same discussion with others about rename. As for your suggestion I don't think so :P so many people put their time into this tourney.
I really disagree with the no foreigner rule. I remember when Balloon won the 6th Weekly, he didn't sign up for any more for a while because a lot people hated Koreans coming in and winning SEA tournaments. I however, think the competition and variety is great. Sure we saw Value demolish the Zergs in the last 3 tournaments he played in but Rossi went 3-2 against him in games. Its not like these tournaments attract the highest levels of Koreans. I just think its sad that when the Koreans win they're "stealing our money" but this accusation would never be made if mOOnGLaDe started playing (and winning) these tournys.
I respect the fact that this is your tournament now, Baldie, but I do hope you will reconsider this rule!
I really disagree with the no foreigner rule. I remember when Balloon won the 6th Weekly, he didn't sign up for any more for a while because a lot people hated Koreans coming in and winning SEA tournaments. I however, think the competition and variety is great. Sure we saw Value demolish the Zergs in the last 3 tournaments he played in but Rossi went 3-2 against him in games. Its not like these tournaments attract the highest levels of Koreans. I just think its sad that when the Koreans win they're "stealing our money" but this accusation would never be made if mOOnGLaDe started playing (and winning) these tournys.
I respect the fact that this is your tournament now, Baldie, but I do hope you will reconsider this rule!
Yea I did something similar a while ago requesting people to sign up with their ingame name and also their actual ID, so if someone like that played, we would know and seed them appropriately so we dont get early knockouts. With this signup method its just a matter of balancing but I think Baldie mentioned the point system to me and how it works so I think this shouldnt be a problem.
As for no foreigners, I disagree however I can understand where you come from, maybe we should leave this judgement to the guys that are higher up and usually get high in the brackets. In the end its only those people that are effected, unless of course they are being annoying admin wise >.<
Well I agree that a conglomerate name needs to be found - but wT is a distant memory, you've paid tribute.
Anyway, I actually like the SEA only rule - as long as it is a rotation thing, so sometimes there are SEA only and sometimes there are international tournaments. Lookin' good wT friends
Well I agree that a conglomerate name needs to be found - but wT is a distant memory, you've paid tribute.
Anyway, I actually like the SEA only rule - as long as it is a rotation thing, so sometimes there are SEA only and sometimes there are international tournaments. Lookin' good wT friends
Actually I did have a thought, maybe the SEA weekly for those tournies that are SEA residents only, and then the SEA International for the Majors to distinguish between the two
I'll go into detail as to why I like SEA online format from time to time. We all love the big names coming in and testing out our players. Even if they are B-Team Korean's that demolish our scene T_T But sometimes, as a spectator - I want to see where everyone in SEA is at against each other. Makes for better stories in the lead up to LAN events and develops SEA Rivalries. Plus I feel more engaged in the players when I'm watching on stream - feel like I can appreciate the play knowing most players styles and strengths. Ofc when some gosu Korean comes along - I can certainly appreciate their abilities also!
Anyway, just my 2c - wT weekly is such a great event, wish you guys the best of luck and look forward to many solid events throughout the year!
Please note due to popular community demand wT Weeklies will now be SEA RESIDENTS ONLY.
wT Majors will still be open internationally.
Also, you'll probably see a larger influx of internationals, as a lot of NA and Korean weekly's have closed down (hence why we've seen players like Major, jookto, Arthur, Value, STGolden, etc)
Just to clarify, a "sea resident" is someone living in sea? or someone from sea birth/nationality/residence? Ie. Can targa play from europe, can someone like pig/mafia/glade play from korea, can king kong play from brisbane or no since hes korean etc etc
Just to clarify, a "sea resident" is someone living in sea? or someone from sea birth/nationality/residence? Ie. Can targa play from europe, can someone like pig/mafia/glade play from korea, can king kong play from brisbane or no since hes korean etc etc
i'd say if u lived in SEA for 6 months in the last year u would be considered a sea resident
I really disagree with the no foreigner rule. I remember when Balloon won the 6th Weekly, he didn't sign up for any more for a while because a lot people hated Koreans coming in and winning SEA tournaments. I however, think the competition and variety is great. Sure we saw Value demolish the Zergs in the last 3 tournaments he played in but Rossi went 3-2 against him in games. Its not like these tournaments attract the highest levels of Koreans. I just think its sad that when the Koreans win they're "stealing our money" but this accusation would never be made if mOOnGLaDe started playing (and winning) these tournys.
I respect the fact that this is your tournament now, Baldie, but I do hope you will reconsider this rule!
The history of koreans playing in SEA tourneys leads way back to the early masters cups, don't think u were around then..but the rule got implemented after Soulman and KingKong won like back to back MC's (5 in a row). This is basically to stop that from repeating...
We will still have healthy competition with every 4th week being an international field, so you will still get to see SEA vs Foreign players battle it out.
Also Rossi went 2-0, 0-2, 1-2 ? That doesn't add up to 3-2. It's kind of retarded when you compare some korean to glade, since glade has actually been part of the SEA scene and community forever.
The history of koreans playing in SEA tourneys leads way back to the early masters cups, don't think u were around then..but the rule got implemented after Soulman and KingKong won like back to back MC's (5 in a row). This is basically to stop that from repeating...
We will still have healthy competition with every 4th week being an international field, so you will still get to see SEA vs Foreign players battle it out.
Also Rossi went 2-0, 0-2, 1-2 ? That doesn't add up to 3-2. It's kind of retarded when you compare some korean to glade, since glade has actually been part of the SEA scene and community forever.
I think there is a much smaller skill gap than back in the early tournaments you are referring to.
When I was talking about Rossi, I was talking about his run in the Silcon Sports Cup. (you can't play 7 games in one tourny lol)
I really don't understand your last point. The argument with not letting Koreans join is that they win a lot of our tournaments and in some peoples opinion "steal our money". From my understanding this has nothing to do with how long they have been in the SEA scene. There is no need to use insults when trying to prove a point =/
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@PetraeusNZ
Last edited by ROOTPetraeus; Sat, 2nd-Feb-2013 at 5:39 AM.
I think there is a much smaller skill gap than back in the early tournaments you are referring to.
When I was talking about Rossi, I was talking about his run in the Silcon Sports Cup.
I really don't understand your last point. The argument with not letting Koreans join is that they win a lot of our tournaments and in some peoples opinion "steal our money". From my understanding this has nothing to do with how long they have been in the SEA scene. There is no need to use insults when trying to prove a point =/
My last point is fairly obvious, obviously ppl can't complain if a sea guy wins a sea tournament.
The best analogy I can come to is if you compare this to traditional sports.
Say you are 17 years old and play football. You play U18's at a club and if you are good enough can represent your state or even country. In other words their are different tiers of play available pending skill.
Let's say I am good enough to represent my state at a national level. It would be inappropriate and unfair for my team to play at a social level game. Sure we could do it but ultimately it wouldn't be fun for us as it would be too easy and it wouldn't be fun for the social guys who get demolished each week.
It's similar with this. It is important to fuel a local community competition and have that prospering before you expand it internationally. It would be like playing 4 rounds at a national level in football and then every 5th week playing a showmatch against another country on an international stage. You would be the under-dogs most likely but the experience you gain could be invaluable. You may get thrashed but it's not something that happens every week and you are close enough in skill to put up a fight (unlike social level).
I think the top tier of SEA is well capable of going toe to toe with some the rest of the world no doubt. However there are few who are willing to go into a tournament knowing they will have to gauntlet through internationals. Would people's opinions on international still be the same if half the tournament became Koreans. I think people are more willing to put up with Koreans in weeklies because the investment in trying to get SEA Power Points is worth it.
Alike America's situation at the moment the Koreans come to MLGs and other major events (even play in Playem's now) and wipe the floor. So the higher end of America just go to events knowing they will have to fight koreans all through the bracket. There is few competitions specific to America which allow them to play each other, develop story lines and personality. It's go to a local event and lose.
I am not fixed in having weeklies SEA but I again emphasise the importance of developing your local scene without opening the flood gates to koreans every event.
Until more SEA only events show up, I think it is important I take a lead role in strengthening the local scene. If there becomes an abundance of SEA only events I will happily open the wT events to an international set of events.
This is a trial like anything and if it turns out to be not a wise decision I will be quick to revert the changes.
Whilst I can easily see the reason for not wishing to have koreans in every SEA tournament, due to reasons like how they rofl stomp at MLG's etc, I still feel like its a bit of a cop out to simply say "oh sea people only then". The analogy with u18 football etc doesn't really hold up, as this is a tournament for money, that of course people want to win. I could be wrong, but I don't believe u18's etc get paid, and if they do get paid money, its a salary and not income from winnings. Whilst yes it would be unfair for a state/international team to rofl stomp a local club who plays for fun, if you are in this scene and competing in TOURNAMENTS where a lot of the reason people play is to win and get better, denying competition simply because they are better is a wrong judgement call.
If we had b teamer koreans playing and not winning, this wouldn't even be an issue. Shit, if we didn't know they were koreans and just some new sea dude winning every single tournament it would still be a similar story of "Oh this guy is winning everything and now people don't want to enter tournaments because they know it will be hard and they'll lose". For this reason the rule was implemented in masters cup that you couldn't win 2 or 3 back to back tournaments.
I feel this is the point Pet was trying to make. It's not that its koreans, or any pro foreigner for that matter, that is doing well in these tournaments, the problem is that SOMEONE are dominating the tournaments, thus making it a less enjoyable experience for others since they feel they have no shot at winning.
Whilst this is actually a real problem, as hope is about the sole driving force of the human race (woah that escalated quickly) we do still have to remind ourselves that this is a competitive and cut throat scene where the best players who wish to play should be rewarded, and not ridiculed because they are doing well. There are plenty of bsgpd tournaments, and even other various tournaments that are more for enjoyment (ie.local lans, 4v4, off race, even clan wars) for people who just want to have some competitive fun.
However like I've said in various other threads do with questions arising from admin ruling, YOU are still the admin and it is YOUR tournament. Discussion should be had, but if, at the end of the day, you have decided on a ruling because you truly feel its for the betterment of the scene, I will absolutely go along with it, no questions asked, and I feel others should do the same.
This discussion is great. More people speaking of it is better. In regards to being my tournament - partly yes. However I want to do the best for the greater community so although I might have the final say any community feedback is of up most importance to me.
Perhaps it is a topic worthy of discussion on SEA Podcast Kez? The situation as a whole not specific to wT Weekly/Major. I'm sure there is a lot to discuss.
Your comment about limiting back to back wins sounds like a halfway solution between SEA and Internationals.
Also Chadmann around calling it SEA Weekly and SEA International is probably the closest appropriate branding change I have heard. There is a lot of passion still in for wT as a tribute and yes I do agree a branding change with the new layout would make sense given Cute still contributes and as one of the founders I will make sure any decisions are cleared with him.
Yeah was definitely thinking about having it on the podcast, was gonna ask the other dudes opinions on if it should be, but i think they'll say yes (they better )
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As a simple spectator my opinion may not weigh as heavily as the players, but seeing a B team korean come in and beat our pros makes me hope that they start to step it up and strive to get on a level where they can compete and defeat these koreans regularly.
Maybe people need to see this as encouragement to improve instead of trying to alienate the new competition.
As a simple spectator my opinion may not weigh as heavily as the players, but seeing a B team korean come in and beat our pros makes me hope that they start to step it up and strive to get on a level where they can compete and defeat these koreans regularly.
Maybe people need to see this as encouragement to improve instead of trying to alienate the new competition.
we vs b team koreans everyday on korea nothing different. I am however indifferent to the decision, if more of them start to play in our cups though i think my feelings may change.
Simple solution is to organize amoungst other tournaments - I believe we will see a few more pop up come HotS
But simply put ensure there are regular international tournaments as well as SEA residents only so you don't get International MC and wT on same week (and SS Cup etc if they become more regular)
Seeding will also help so we don't see players like Mafia or Rossi knocked out early and will allow others to enjoy facing eachother before getting slapped against the wall by Light or Value
Also should you need help with translating rules into Korean can add me on skype
I would love to hear peoples thoughts if wT Weeklies and other events started having 50%+ Koreans joining and if people still thought it should be open up if it turns out to be Korean vs Korean.
I feel like wT Weekly is almost at a point where it can attract international attention now that it has a flagship event behind it every 5th week. However I don't think it is quite there yet. I would love to see more weekly tournaments pop up so there is a healthy SEA only top tier competitive level.
This whole topic needs it's own thread.. better yet get the next SEA Podcast sorted ASAP! It's obviously an "issue" which has been left underspoken for quite some time and has a lot of value in having.
Both for current players and event managers as well as future.
I enjoy playing players that roll/stomp me. It gives me really good feedback on my play. From purely a player perspective I like having KR guys with us in our events~
yeah this is kinda bullshit. you want to grow the scene and its competitiveness and stop everyone moving to other servers so you ban foreigners from a weekly event.
your not only killing viewership your killing the skill bar.
kudos
you want to grow the scene and its competitiveness and stop everyone moving to other servers so you ban foreigners from a weekly event.
I don't really understand what you are saying here you seem to contradict yourself. If I wanted to stop everyone moving to other servers wouldn't having regional competition make sense? The wT Major is still international and won't ever be only SEA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IXLRunaMoK
your not only killing viewership
Viewership isn't even a priority for me. It if it was I wouldn't even host a weekly event, I would pool all the money and run a major event and invite the biggest and best players in the world I could get and have heaps of views and pat myself on the back. What does that ultimately achieve? Well it achieves things I am not interested in, short term benefits. These weekly tournaments are a long term investment to promote and stengthen the competition of the SEA region.
Do you really think if I cared about viewers I would spend the amount of time I do each week organising brackets, admins, briefing teams, creating internal seeding points and releasing them publically with weekly updates and changes? Let alone allowing the community to cast the weeklies if they want regardless if they are good or bad? I'd be better off spending my time contacting bigger names in the community and asking them to play in it and creating hype threads and casting it myself every week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IXLRunaMoK
your killing the skill bar.
kudos
In regards to killing the skill bar totally you could argue that and like I said in my original post this is a trial if there is an outcry we will reconsider. However I wouldn't be so quick to shoot it down.
We will see how this week goes. Ultimately I don't want this to be a SEA only event. I want to have SEA be able to regularly play international talent to learn and develop themselves, and I think wT Weeklies are at a point where they are reputable enough to achieve international success over time. However until my concern around a lack of regular regional events is resolved, I would rather invest my time in growing the region from within.
yeah this is kinda bullshit. you want to grow the scene and its competitiveness and stop everyone moving to other servers so you ban foreigners from a weekly event.
your not only killing viewership your killing the skill bar.
kudos
thats aside
IXLRunamok. 851
I know for a fact that all of our top players have played people better than these guys playing in these weeklies on ladder. PiG, ninja, mafia, glade, iaguz, rossi they all have countless games against code a Koreans, let alone code b. So there is no skill bar issues or whatever and we shouldn't pretend that there are. Baldie responded to the viewer issue though no one cares about the random code b Korean they've never heard of winning games against random foreigners they've never heard of for a prize of $20. tbh the only real issue with this is seeding for the poor international players who cant get spr points now.
As far as I'm concerned this is not an issue at all, I mean if anything you could argue that having the wT major open to non-SEA players is an issue of itself but I won't go there.
tbh the only real issue with this is seeding for the poor international players who cant get spr points now.
Definitely a concern I had in regards to Cyrano/Value as he is definitely interested in playing as much as he can to earn SEA Power Ranks to be involved in the proposed major event at the end of the year.
Depends how you look at it.
1st place at a weekly earns 25 SPR.
1st place at a major earns 140 SPR.
The issue with seeding for international players in major for their first event will be tough but as long as they place in the top 16 they will earn some SPR which will give them a chance at seeding next time. That or find other events they can partake in to earn points.
I think it makes more sense to have wT Weekly open internationally so they feed into the Major and if international acts really want to get favourable seeding they will have to play in the weeklies so it's a win/win.
I just had it open internationally without advertising it before and a few have trickled in. If/when we switch back to open I will advertise on TL and push exposure for it. Perhaps we could transition to advertised international after the next wT Major on 25th February?
All I do know right now is this is a very welcome conversation to have and for people to speak out about and I think the discussion has the potential to make a difference to other online events present and future.
don't get me wrong i love how your focus is sea and building its scene. but its still such a niche community.
to build the competition i feel you need to raise awareness and having foreigners compete in these events creates that interest and allows our own to stack up against some of the best.
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Having just met a Korean who wants to join my clan and be active on Sea I thought about introducing him to this site. However with this no forgiener rule it's very difficult for me to introduce to him this site and scene because since he doesn't speak a lot of english. The best way for him to socialise with us is through Starcraft.
Whilst I understand what you're trying to do, with global play we'll have more Foriengers who want be part of SEA. So I'd like there to be at least 1 weekly tournament that they can play in. More so with that fact that a lot of TW/KR people are laddering on SEA now.
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Last edited by TCPLemminks; Mon, 4th-Feb-2013 at 11:53 PM.
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