[Cyanide]

So I was derping around in 1v1 and then kinda 'thought' of this opening. Now I'm not sure if i've seen it somewhere before that it got etched into my subconscious, so not gonna claim credit for it.

It works pretty good in ZvZ, ZvP even, then again, my play is pretty shitty.

9/10 Overlord
12/18 Gas immediately after 12th drone started
11/18 Pool and drone till 16
16/18 Evo chamber

Gas until 200, I usually make 18 drones, all on minerals after gas. Research speed and +1
Make OL and Queen, 2 lings for scouting/tower.
I think it's about 26 food that you can make 2nd hatch.
Then from there, just pump lings non-stop until you win. *I say this only if you know you can win, goes without saying that you should know when to stop with relevant scouting info*

Any inputs on the flaws of this opening? So far I've had 100% wins in ZvZ, even against banelings. (Disclaimer: I've been derping around in BSG league, LOL)

[mGGAequitas]

i'm protoss and I am fairly certain that your build will result in lings too late to deny the expo, I know that if you go gas pool expo then make mass slings once ur expo is done you can usually do a lot of damage vs a gate fe like 1 gate expo, not so much vs ffe.

i'm no expert at zvz but I don't think +1 will help that much since it takes only 1 less hit for a ling to kill a ling (from 7 down to 6) so early on it would be better to have more lings and more econ.

[KFCrumpet]

i use to do a build similar in zvz, it worked for a while but the evo and +1 that eraly really puts you behind, any early kind of aggression will smash it as i learned over and over again. ZvP it all depends on how bad your opponent is, it can be thwart off pretty easy especially if the early evo is scouted. if you want to do some early aggro against toss along these lines a couple of banes may work a bit better, but bane busts are also a bit of a hit n miss tactic against toss. my 2c

[mGGDrGooSe]

I used to play with 12 pools a little in ZvZ when I had trouble dealing with 9 or earlier pools (Now i just 14/14 and try to control better). My gut instinct is that 12g11p is too late to really do anything in ZvZ offensively and too uneconomic to be used defensively. I think any Z or P opening standard will be at an advantage eco-wise and should be able to control well enough to avoid taking a useful amount of damage if your play aggressive. My 2c worth anyway, I bow down to the wisdom of others who may disagree.

[KFCrumpet]

12pool cacn be used aggressively, maybe just not with the +1 up as it delays your aggression too much

[mGGDrGooSe]

Originally Posted by KFCrumpet

12pool cacn be used aggressively, maybe just not with the +1 up as it delays your aggression too much

Yeah, certainly didn't mean to imply that 12p builds are bad, just that I find them to be too middle-of-the-road (personal opinion). Not quite early enough for aggression and not late enough to be called economic. I would definetely say this build would be better if you only got speed until after the expansion pops. But I think unless you killed their queen or atleast 2-3 drones against a 14/14 player, you wouldn't be ahead and would probably be behind.

Edit: I type so slowly, so many posts coming in before I hit that submit button.

[TargA]

nope 10 char

[Fenner]

1 base allins can be strong if you completely deny scouting, get a 2nd queen and maybe a spine behind them and then you can get wins at a higher level from them having no idea what you're doing and reacting incorrectly. You'll need 2nd queen to block ramp anyway otherwise you'll die to any earlier allin yourself (just 14/14 banes should beat your build without ramp block/spine)

but this build completely depends on your opponent reacting poorly

[Cyanide]

you can still be agressive with the non +1 lings. My speed kicks in earlier. And when opponent puts spines or go roaches, or go mass lings on me, my +1 would have been done by then. By the time i get really aggressive, I think it's close to 30 food worth of lings.

What are the other possible down sides? Just like to state that my purpose of this post is to know all the flaws of this opening. :P

[wTlzq]

no

ten char

[Fenner]

also stronger version of this is 9/10 pool with gas, to beat hatch first builds and still be in the game vs 14/14 builds

[KFCrumpet]

how do you actually deal with banes? and land the damage yourself? i found this build stopped working as soon as i got to gold is all. My build was:

13 pool
12gas
drone to 16
3 drones straight onto gas when finished
at 35gas build evo, would time well with first 100 gas for +1 melee
queen when pool was done
OL straight after queen
speed on next 100 gas
drone till 20-21, and used a macro hatch too

non stop lings from first larvae inject

[TADivinity]

No way.

ZvZ banelings are way too easy to defend that sorry. Your opponents banes can even be late and they will be safe

[Cyanide]

thanks for the inputs! think i'll just practice 15/14 hatch/pools opening.