[Brultze]

Ok so im Brultze and im a 1900+ diamond protoss. But i realized that i keep using the same strategy for each matchup and i dont even know any other strat to use that i know how to properly execute. So i would like to ask the protoss on sc2sea as to what strats do YOU use and has been working for you.
Pls help me i feel very bored using the same strats each time i play sc2 and even though they work they are very boring after a while and if i play a best of ___ with someone the strat wont work twice.
Thx
[EDIT] btw if you could provide replays that would be awesome

[OxygeN]

imo watch hongun prime. he has 5000 different strategies!!

[nirvAnA]

yea P is pretty stale, only a few builds work thats why ive been offracing so i dont get bored. god i really hate pvp and pvt.

PvT is the worst as it has like 2 builds. pvp is a rock paper sisccors bo win thing and it the game drags on its a collosus fest

PvZ at least is still fun cause it has more openings. all these openings are viable for me and ive done decent vs basically all the top zergs on sea.

pheonix 3 gate
voidray 3 gate
3gate sentry expand
dt rush
robo 2 immortal 4 gate rush
4 gate blink stalkers
5 gate mass sentry/stalker +1 attack
2 gate stalker rush
good old cut probe 4 gate

fast expanding gives you the option to go dual stargate voids/phoenixs
cannon expand
gateway expand on maps like LT.

[Brultze]

the cut probe 4gate is mostly what ive been getting away with in PvZ :P the only other opening i had was voidray 3gate but i did not have too much success with that...

[nirvAnA]

yea that 4 gate pvz is actually the build i like the least coz its so allinish and easily coutered by a good opponent but you have to do it once in a while to mix things up for meta game purposes if you're playing a regular opponent.

i.e so he cant drone so hard and will be like is he teching or 4 gating? and plays safer while u cut corners. yea well zerg is a reactionary race because of their early expansion.

3 gate voidray is all about execution and timing + not losing the voids. ure not supposed to kill queens ure supposed to kill drones and if u cant kill him with the voids at the timing dont go all in and expand instead

[NvPinder]

If you have a good solid thought out build, theres no reason why it wont work every game in a BoX series.

Think about it like this, your standard build should be so safe and so refined and solid against everything, you should be able to beat a lesser player even if they were map hacking. Solid, safe builds don't rely on praying your opponent doesn't scout here or praying your opponent doesn't do x or y strat to beat it.

The one case where this changes (at least as far as i know) is pretty much PvP atm, where there is no one safe build and since scouting after their stalker finishes is more or less impossible before making the tech choice that will win or lose you the game, it's more like a game of poker than a game of starcraft.

[dennistoo]

I've been playing DT rushes against greedy zerg recently. Results pretty good. However, first 5min is very risky as i'm basically queing for DT with only 1 zealot and 1 stalker

Once lair's down, i will changing into 2X stargate voidray. Econ wise for such built is good IMO as it's only gas intensive during the DT rushes.

[gwombat]

someone suggested a phoenix DT build once, so i tried it.

if you open with a DT fast expand and take the gas quickly. it's really gas heavy though so you'll be a little short on stalkers and you'll have almost no sentries. i used the extra minerals to build a lot of cannons. the idea is that if you have a large amount of DTs you can keep sniping overseers and your opponent can't really move out, so you can out-expand him and keep harassing.

may not be the best strategy ever.

[Brultze]

how do you snipe overseers with DTs? O_O

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Brultze

how do you snipe overseers with DTs? O_O

I dont wanna hear your "dt's cant attack up" excuses. man up the **** up and snipe those overseers with your dts.

[Brultze]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

I dont wanna hear your "dt's cant attack up" excuses. man up the **** up and snipe those overseers with your dts.

i would if i could but it appears that MY DTs cant jump high enough

[cure]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

I dont wanna hear your "dt's cant attack up" excuses. man up the **** up and snipe those overseers with your dts.

i loled so hard at this.

[AZKwitchdoc]

Originally Posted by Kaz

i loled so hard at this.

ROFFL hahahaha

[Brultze]

btw what are the 2 builds that work in PvT? and can help explain pls?

[Xeen]

PvT has a couple options, usually you'll be working with either some variant of a FE (1gate FE, look it up on TL), or 1base all-in (3gate VR break, dt rush, etc). All these are pretty well documented so you can go find the details.

If you scout T being greedy with tech a 1base rush can kill them outright, blink is best for this.

[nirvAnA]

yea wat xeen said

PVT safest builds are -
1)1 gate FE
2)1 gate robo then add 1more gate (this is safest of coz) but because you dont cut corners you BO lose vs some terran builds like 1rax fast expands

Viable but more risky builds would be
1) DT into templar tech build (this is bo lost vs 1/1/1 or banshee builds)
2) Voidrays 3 gate
3) Phoenix into collosus
4) the sentry heavy 3gate expand build which is normally used for PVZ. MC used it vs jinro's fast expand build and totally crushed him with a ff timing attack. tho its weak against banshees as well
5) 4gate or 4 gate + warp prisims

i could basically go into detail and write 4 pages of stuff like which build is best when, how to execute properly etc if theres any big demand for it

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

yea wat xeen said

PVT safest builds are -
1)1 gate FE
2)1 gate robo then add 1more gate (this is safest of coz) but because you dont cut corners you BO lose vs some terran builds like 1rax fast expands

I don't think 1 gate robo is that far behind 1 rax FE from terran, but i dono, dont use it that much tbh.

I think there are a couple of options for P in PvT, but u just have to be careful with scouting and shit, like, there are a lot of different ways to react to what you see terran doing, but it can just be hard to actually see what that is, obviously you cant do what mc did against jinro on xel'naga without knowing he's going bio, im sure if he didn't see jinro push out to take map control he wouldn't of just expanded and never gone robo ever, it's the queue that he knew jinro was bio as well as the fact that it's a big enough map that 3-rax is stupid that let MC do the timing attack he did with pretty much no reprocussions (how the **** do you spell that?) as jinro is 95% of the time 1 or 2 rax FE with the information he gave MC.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by JPMoney

I don't think 1 gate robo is that far behind 1 rax FE from terran, but i dono, dont use it that much tbh.

Even 1gate FE is economically a little slower than 1rax FE imo, you'll have more workers early due to chrono but you're not maxing saturation anyways so having the nat up sooner (for T) just means more production/more mules. It's not a big enough difference that you can't make it up with 2xnex chronos or whatever other small way later on though.

Brultze: 1gate robo like Nirv said is pretty safe, you can do a kiwikaki-ish fast robo (21 supply) into an immediate immortal, and expand at 38~ with 2z 1immo and an obs going to T base, with the immo fulfilling the role of an early stalker. See Kiwikaki vs Select from MLG.

You can also do all kinds of other things like 1gate robo -> obs, gate robo gate, pure 2gate FE - it just comes down to what you want to transition to, rush distances, scouting, safety, etc. If you're trying to learn the matchup and just get better in general I'd suggest 1gate FEing almost every game, because it forces you to rely on macro mechanics, timings, transitions, and lategame army control rather than luckboxing wins. Learn the aggressive punishing builds later.

[Brultze]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

i could basically go into detail and write 4 pages of stuff like which build is best when, how to execute properly etc if theres any big demand for it

If you could it would be GREAT!!!

[wish]

why dont u just experiment with builds on ladder.

[Brultze]

i would but i need to know about the builds first...

[Dogsi]

I don't have any build orders... I scout and just build what I think I need to build... expand when it seems appropriate...

[Stroggos]

pvt, i pretty much go 1gate, 1robo then expand then 2 more gateways, its so good vs terran that you dont even have to vary your builds, that much.

pvz you need to vary your builds alot. I like practicing 2gate stalker pressure push. However i have a voidray into expand into mothership into collosus build that can work really well on some maps.

pvz: 2gate stalker pressure(this build becomes really good after a ton of practice, because you get the speedling timings down really well), 3gate expand(most standard build i guess), voidrays are always good because you dont need to go all in with them. 4gate sucks but i guess it can be ok vs some players (kowi somehow got to rank 1 on US using 4gate alot) then there's blink stalker builds which are ok vs zerg.

pvp, my main build is 1gate, 1robo, 2more gateways then a stargate instead of robo bay. This build is a mediumish build that can do well vs most other protoss builds. The stargate can be used to make voidrays to match collosus builds, and 3gate robo first makes it easy to defend vs all in 4gates/dts/blink stalker builds ect.

korean 4gate is a good build pvp, dts are good beacuse non robo builds are becomming more popular, and standard 4 gate is actually pretty good in pvp.

i used like 2 builds in pvt and 4 builds for pvz/pvp. variety is a must in pvp.