[deL]

SEACL League 1 (Tier 4)

Week 9
Rounds 14 and 15
Game 1: MLG Metalopolis
Game 2: MLG Shattered Temple
Game 3: GSL Dual Sight
Game 4: GSL Calm Before The Storm
Ace match: MLG Tal'Darim Altar

+ [Map Pool] +

MLG Metalopolis, GSL Antiga Shipyard, MLG Shakuras Plateau, MLG Tal'darim Altar, MLG Shattered Temple, GSL Daybreak, GSL Bel'shir Beach Winter, GSL Calm Before The Storm, GSL Dual Sight, Cloud Kingdom

Format

Starting map for each Bo3 is set above. The loser of the previous game picks the next map from the entire map pool (no veto system). No duplicate maps can be used in the one Bo3.

Chat Channel: SEALTIER4

To submit your lineup, use the admin contact details below stating the race and league of each player, and which map (or game) they are playing in. LINEUPS ARE CONFIDENTIAL. Replacing one of these players more than 48 hours before the tournament begins will use one of your 8 allocated "Wildcards". Similarly, roster additions that you wish to include in the lineup less than 48 hours before the game will use one of four "Subs" and one "Wildcard".

+ [Format] +

Game 1: Bo3 (1point)
Game 2: Bo3 (1point)
Game 3: Bo3 (1point)
Game 4: Bo3 (1point)
Game 5: Ace game: Bo3 (2points)

Draws are possible.
Point system: Win: 3pts, Draw: 1pt, Loss: 0pts

Admins

TAdeL#159 (Skype: cgaudel)

Matches - Week 9

Thursday 15th March 2012
NOTE: Both rounds are played on the Thursday, one after the other, UNLESS RESCHEDULED.

Round 14	Round 15
09:00pm AEDT	10:30pm AEDT
-------	-------
iRL [0-4] TA	TA [5-1] KFC
LOSE < W.O. > WIN	TABlitz < W.O. > TSAce
LOSE < W.O. > WIN	TADanny < W.O. > KFCtrinion
LOSE < W.O. > WIN	Zepph < W.O. > CbBtreAd
LOSE < W.O. > WIN	TASlowHands < 1-2 > KFCBukket
LOSE < W.O. > WIN	TADivinity < 2-0 > Nightmare
KFC [4-2] AsG	iRL [0-4] eXofG
TSAce < 1-2 > AsGZealo	LOSE < W.O. > WIN
KFCtrinion < 2-0 > AsGThor	LOSE < W.O. > WIN
CbBtreAd < 0-2 > Jayaiwhy	LOSE < W.O. > WIN
KFCBukket < 2-1 > AsGNasch	LOSE < W.O. > WIN
Nightmare < 2-0 > Goosejuice	LOSE < W.O. > WIN
eXofG [3-2] FaDe 1	AsG [6-0] VB
xfgGerms < 0-2 > FaDeKript	AsGZealo < 2-0 > VBSirhcle
PacificAlice < 2-1 > FaDeLemon	AsGArmi < 2-0 > VBEverion
xFgSurt < W.O. > Honeybadger	Jayaiwhy < 2-0 > VBBoony
eXoBASA < 0-0 > FaDeRawfish	Goosejuice < 2-0 > VBWhiplashJC
eXoCeephyr < 2-0 > FaDeMouse	AsGThor < 2-0 > VBHpK
VB [2-4] SCT	FaDe 1 [1-3] TCP
VBRhuubarb < 2-0 > MJtron	FaDeEpic < 1-2 > Durrr
VBEverion < 0-2 > DrSayus	FaDeLemon < 0-0 > FYRE
VBBoony < 2-0 > ProEpsilon	Honeybadger < 2-0 > TCPLemminks
VBWhiplashJC < 1-2 > Demackas	FaDeRawfish < 0-0 > TragicHero
VBHpK < W.O. > Iunou	FaDeMouse < W.O. > ZiggyD
TCP [2-4] FaDe 2	SCT [0-6] ToT
Durrr < 2-1 > FaDeKazi	MJtron < W.O. > Droptheworld
FYRE < 1-2 > Kerrigan	DrSayus < 0-2 > RedNight
ElementFC < W.O. > FaDeSagi	ProEpsilon < 0-2 > StMonth
TragicHero < 2-1 > FaDeSorathez	Demackas < 0-2 > Zephyrus
ZiggyD < 1-2 > FaDePesi	Iunou < 0-2 > Alopex
ToT [5-1] NaZ	FaDe 2 [4-1] HDMD-kT
Alopex < 2-0 > NaZenabi	FaDeKazi < 0-0 > HDChinkzMD
RedNight < 2-0 > NaZSolstice	Kerrigan < 1-2 > HDPapyrusMD
Droptheworld < 0-2 > Bwodie	FaDeSagi < W.O. > HDSyntaxMD
Zephyrus < 2-0 > NaZPittsy	FaDeSorathez < W.O. > HDSmojFaceMD
StMonth < 2-0 > NaZCrispy	FaDePesi < W.O. > HDmokssMD
HDMD-kT [1-5] ipr	NaZ [3-1] ToR
HDChinkzMD < 0-2 > iprBearpack	Doufoos < 0-0 > NaZenabi
HDPapyrusMD < 2-0 > iprScrubzor	ToRsPook < 2-0 > NaZSolstice
HDSyntaxMD < W.O. > iprArrival	ToRDjvillian < 0-0 > Bwodie
HDSmojFaceMD < W.O. > Montycarlo	ToRGunz < 0-2 > NaZPittsy
HDmokssMD < W.O. > KingPenguin	Shadowz < 2-1 > NaZCrispy
ToR [1-5] ZeroCraft	ipr [1-5] ZeroCraft
Doufoos < 0-2 > ShiFTy	iprBearpack < 0-2 > ShiFTy
Shadowz < 2-1 > Insurgence	iprScrubzor < 2-0 > infinity
ToRDjvillian < 0-2 > suman	iprArrival < 0-2 > suman
ToRGunz < 0-2 > krip	Montycarlo < 0-2 > Insurgence
ToRsPook < 0-2 > nGenFlar	Gonzo < 1-2 > tubby

Current Standings

Team	Played	Win	Draw	Loss	Record	WCs	Subs	Penalty	Points
1. TA	13	12	1	0	59/16 (+45)	4	3	0	37
2. KFC	13	12	0	1	58/16 (+44)	3	4	0	36
3. ToT	13	9	2	2	50/26 (+24)	7	1	0	29
4. AsG	13	9	1	3	48/28 (+20)	5	3	0	28
5. FaDe 1	13	8	2	3	49/27 (+22)	1	1	2	26
6. ZeroCraft	13	7	1	5	41/28 (+14)	5	1	2	22
7. ipr	13	7	1	5	37/35 (+2)	4	1	0	22
8. eXofG	13	5	3	5	38/38 (±0)	6	3	0	18
9. iRL	13	4	1	8	27/49 (-22)	3	1	4	12*
10. SCT	13	3	2	8	28/45 (-17)	1	0	0	11
11. TCP	13	3	2	8	30/48 (-18)	5	3	1	11
12. ToR	13	3	2	8	27/44 (-18)	6	1	1	11
13. VB	13	3	1	9	28/48 (-20)	4	3	1	10
14. HDMD-KT	13	3	2	8	22/52 (-30)	6	0	4	10*
15. NaZGaming	13	1	4	8	24/51 (-27)	7	3	1	7
16. FaDe 2	13	2	1	10	18/58 (-40)	4	1	3	7

*Subs are the number of additional team members that can be added to the roster, up to 4 maybe used.
*Wildcards (WCs) are the number of replacements for no-shows allowed from the roster, up to 8 may be used.
*Penalties are accrued for late submission of results or lineups, and will carry various penalties yet to be decided.
*Team points marked with an asterisk denote a point deduction has occurred due to penalty points.

Casters

• FaDeHalstrom (Official; first choice of games)
• Suman (Volunteer stream)
• deL (Volunteer stream)
• HazZerK (Volunteer stream)
• Want to stream? Let me know!

Brackets - Official Thread - Preview Thread

Thread Archive
Week 1 - Week 2 - Week 3 - Week 4 - Week 5 - Week 6 - Week 7 - Week 8 - Week 9

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	Delbert is SEX <3 + Rep ^^
	Zealo:	i just feel like i should rep you more often
	lolwut:

[deL]

No lineups submitted yet! I want 100% attendance in the final week to prove the playoffs are worth a prize!

[syfMiley]

As Divinity would say, "I'm excited"

[Dracover]

TA hwaiting. Drop me a pm if i'm needed. Though you guys seem to be doing fine without me =D.

[[TA]LoSt]

http://sc2ranks.com/sea/388317/Nightmare

You're kidding right? 48-14.. This guy would rape every TA tier 2 member and he's been playing in tier 4 since the start? Why has nobody said anything and why is this even being allowed..?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/65000/nGenFlar

As well? Why have these guys been playing in this tier when they'd EASILY compete in tier 2, even give some t1 players a run for their money?

Gotta be kidding yourselves.. Wish I saw this earlier

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:
	TAScaramanga:

[KAshadowz]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

http://sc2ranks.com/sea/388317/Nightmare

You're kidding right? 48-14.. This guy would rape every TA tier 2 member and he's been playing in tier 4 since the start? Why has nobody said anything and why is this even being allowed..?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/65000/nGenFlar

As well? Why have these guys been playing in this tier when they'd EASILY compete in tier 2, even give some t1 players a run for their money?

Gotta be kidding yourselves.. Wish I saw this earlier

I agree with what you're saying, although arguably it is hard to pick out in the beginning as they were masters.

48-14 is insane, the team said they didnt want to split up...I guess thats how it turned out.

Regardless it doesn't matter too much now at the end of the season as the tops teams should be moving onto the next tier anyways.

Quick Comments

TCPLemminks:

Precisely!

[ZCPooSmear]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

http://sc2ranks.com/sea/388317/Nightmare

You're kidding right? 48-14.. This guy would rape every TA tier 2 member and he's been playing in tier 4 since the start? Why has nobody said anything and why is this even being allowed..?

http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/65000/nGenFlar

As well? Why have these guys been playing in this tier when they'd EASILY compete in tier 2, even give some t1 players a run for their money?

Gotta be kidding yourselves.. Wish I saw this earlier

You seem mad bro.
nGenFlar joined us when he was in Masters. Ladder grind. Won. Got promoted. Before this season started, people complained about having Masters players in other teams, so then they got masters players or got promoted themselves and got over it. Also being in another tier would require we have the sufficient number of GM players to even join the tier in the first place. But sadly we don't, so I guess you could say that this is the best "A Team" we could produce.

So again, UMAD? ~

Quick Comments

	VB_WhiplashJC:	No need for the taunt, bro.
	[TA]LoSt:	You're an idiot
	TAminimat:	idiot
	Maynarde:	Acceptable response with unacceptable wrapping
	TACosmic:	scumbag maynarde pos repping
	iM yang:	have some respect in your posts
	TAScaramanga:	You sir lack elegance and class, Dudley would be disapointed.
	Champi:	you would fit in well in the youtube community
	Zealo:	no need to BM, but totally agree with your point
	NvPinder:	You are a pizza burn on the roof of the worlds mouth
	TADivinity:	You lose credibility with childish taunts
	ToRSpookToR:	..|..
	simon:	you sir should be embarrassed right now

[jayaiwhy]

Originally Posted by suman

You seem mad bro.
nGenFlar joined us when he was in Masters. Ladder grind. Won. Got promoted. Before this season started, people complained about having Masters players in other teams, so then they got masters players or got promoted themselves and got over it. Also being in another tier would require we have the sufficient number of GM players to even join the tier in the first place. But sadly we don't, so I guess you could say that this is the best "A Team" we could produce.

So again, UMAD? ~

No need for the taunt, bro.

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by suman

You seem mad bro.
nGenFlar joined us when he was in Masters. Ladder grind. Won. Got promoted. Before this season started, people complained about having Masters players in other teams, so then they got masters players or got promoted themselves and got over it. Also being in another tier would require we have the sufficient number of GM players to even join the tier in the first place. But sadly we don't, so I guess you could say that this is the best "A Team" we could produce.

So again, UMAD? ~

....

No matter what the excuse is, the fact that they're in there playing every week is disgraceful.. How proud do you feel that he's winning every match?

There was no need for you to post here and do some ridiculous attempt at trolling. Definitely viewing you and your team (as the only person to step up and say something regarding the issue) in a different way now. Guess you're lucky Zerocraft isn't actually a clan..

Aside from that, fact is that T3 is basically a diamond/masters tier as well, with maybe a few GM's per team max. With an ace that could EASILY compete in this division, how do you feel knowing he's acing every week in this division?

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

....

No matter what the excuse is, the fact that they're in there playing every week is disgraceful.. How proud do you feel that he's winning every match?

There was no need for you to post here and do some ridiculous attempt at trolling. Definitely viewing you and your team (as the only person to step up and say something regarding the issue) in a different way now. Guess you're lucky Zerocraft isn't actually a clan..

Aside from that, fact is that T3 is basically a diamond/masters tier as well, with maybe a few GM's per team max. With an ace that could EASILY compete in this division, how do you feel knowing he's acing every week in this division?

Isnt actually a clan? Its actually a little insulting to say something like that, I know you Lost and you're a good bloke so Im going to bite my tongue.


Just so you know Im the co-founder of the clan/team "Zerocraft"

The idea of "Zerocraft" was to the ultimate Lower tier team/clan its a team for all the displaced and teamless members of the community, My (and sumans) aim was to fill a gap to actually brand ourselves we were the team to go to if you didnt fit the mould, we're the misfits, from different walks of life we are the Herocraft of the lower divisions, "Clanless" may not have been a "real" team/clan however funny thing is after a season of playing together they were more of a clan then most.

I understand your frustration but I dont see what business a Tier 2 player has in questioning how T4 is run

TA tier 4 has what 4-5 Masters? Fact is he was Masters when he join and ZC picked up a Master or two because they entered into this league in good faith with Diamond / Plat players, not knowing Masters could be involved having a small roster when time came to recruit naturally a strong Masters player is preferred over a average Plat player, we could have just said screw it can Tier 4 will pack our Tier 5 roster with Plats when things got tough but suman wanted to remain in the competition. Cant blame a person for getting better at the game, 1 week is left in the comp why argue over something silly? In the off season ZC will hopefully pick up a couple more Masters and hopefully some plat-diamond and diamond-masters promotions will mean they can make T3.

Yeah Suman was out of line with his rant he knows that but its easily to lose your temper when the pot is calling the kettle black


Just so you know some of our members have already used their name change to add ZC to their name

Id like to thank you for your input today because youve convinced me to do the same

[TASlowHands]

I have faith in divinity personally, and I aint going to write diatribes of why im correct and you're a hypocrite and wrong. Im going to practice my ZvT.

It looks like the decision has been made already. Why talk hilariously at length about it?

[Ceephyr]

do we get a walkover vs fade1?

[BASA]

what about the other matchups?

[TAEdgE]

Since when could Flar get a record like that lol o.o... nice improvement

[Maynarde]

I was meant to neg rep you suman, you can't carry on like that when someone wants answers. Accidently hit positive but most certainly don't want to reward "u mad" responses. This isn't acceptable.

Quick Comments

ToRSpookToR:

mine was also meant to be neg rep godam

[TCPLemminks]

Right before this gets out of hand.

deL and I knew about Nightmare becoming GM and I personally would like to congratulate him on achieving that. Nightmare joined the league as a Masters player. I'm sure we can agree that it is difficult to gauge a Master player's skill level since there is a large skill gap within itself. Therefore players could be just above diamond or just below GM.

When ngenflar joined ZC, he was . We had allowed several players in as subs before so there was no problem with adding him to the ZC roster.

Both ngenflar and Nightmare achieved their status after joining the league, presumably through hard work. There are no league restrictions in this league nor in any other league. To take action now by stating that they cannot play is both unfair to them for their achievements and to the teams that have already faced against them.

Therefore I personally will not be taking any actions, especially considering that this is the final week. I'm pretty sure that T3, T4, and T5 will be reshuffled for the next SEACL, so I'm assuming that because of their GM status, Zerocraft and KFC will be promoted to T3.

P.S. I would appreciate it if you didn't start forest fires

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	crAzerk:	agree
	ZCPooSmear:	yes ma'am! Was probably feeling a little trollish before D:
	Frogmite:	forest fires
	Zealo:	♥
	deL:	so wise and handsome
	Reere:	what a firefighter~!
	Goosejuice:
	Valour:
	zenabi:
	Trinion:

[ZCPooSmear]

*sigh* Well yes, I do take the blame for that ridiculous post, quite out of character tbh! However I do still hold true to the fact that our team is quite small (we have some inactive players) and its hard to swap people around; especially when we're trying to hold top 6 on the scoreboard.
When I signed our team up at the start of the season, we asked to be Tier3 however nGenFlar wasn't with us then. Maybe next season. Hope you don't think too badly of us after this apology post?

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by suman

*sigh* Well yes, I do take the blame for that ridiculous post, quite out of character tbh! However I do still hold true to the fact that our team is quite small (we have some inactive players) and its hard to swap people around; especially when we're trying to hold top 6 on the scoreboard.
When I signed our team up at the start of the season, we asked to be Tier3 however nGenFlar wasn't with us then. Maybe next season. Hope you don't think too badly of us after this apology post?

What........Who else was meant to take the blame? -_-

[syfMiley]

Comeon fellas, manner up and let's just play the game ^^

[ZCLLaMApOO]

Considering that 'GM' is just a label for a player who is in the top 200 of Masters League, if you're going to make a big deal out of this then you may as well ask for a points restriction in Masters League.

I can assure you noone would even notice if someone was #1 in Masters (essentially GM)

[VB_WhiplashJC]

Both sides of the argument have merit. I think the other issue is having 16 teams.

These problems could be at least partially solved by making more teams promote to t3 than demote.

[deL]

Regarding suman's outburst, he is one of the hardest working managers trying to organise a bunch of guys who aren't really a team and he was probably frustrated. His team was for so long basically the only one without Masters league representation and he finally got a single player to stay competitive in ace matches and all of a sudden everyone is asking him to be banned from competing haha. Some sympathy there and hope people don't judge him on that post above.

Just to echo what Lemminks said earlier, we were given instructions in this league that there were no league restrictions and it includes masters players (as from my very first post in the league you can see the use of the masters logo in the headings). The rule of thumb was later promotions are OK and we've kind of carried that rule on. Some teams are able to field all 5 Masters league players so there shouldn't be anything wrong with a team fielding a single GM player and the rest of them Diamond or Plat. Come playoffs there are no ace matches so it won't be as big an advantage anyway.

[VB_Rhuubarb]

I'll just add to the Nightmare thing...

I played him in week 1, so if he's become GM since then, it's been through hard work and a lot of improvement, as he definitely belonged in this league week 1. Anyone else could have made the same leap as Nightmare has, but for whatever reason hasn't... so kudos to Nightmare for his achievement, he earned it.

Quick Comments

	ToR.Arnor:	nice input ^_^
	Trinion:

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

Isnt actually a clan? Its actually a little insulting to say something like that, I know you Lost and you're a good bloke so Im going to bite my tongue.


Just so you know Im the co-founder of the clan/team "Zerocraft"

The idea of "Zerocraft" was to the ultimate Lower tier team/clan its a team for all the displaced and teamless members of the community, My (and sumans) aim was to fill a gap to actually brand ourselves we were the team to go to if you didnt fit the mould, we're the misfits, from different walks of life we are the Herocraft of the lower divisions, "Clanless" may not have been a "real" team/clan however funny thing is after a season of playing together they were more of a clan then most.

I understand your frustration but I dont see what business a Tier 2 player has in questioning how T4 is run

TA tier 4 has what 4-5 Masters? Fact is he was Masters when he join and ZC picked up a Master or two because they entered into this league in good faith with Diamond / Plat players, not knowing Masters could be involved having a small roster when time came to recruit naturally a strong Masters player is preferred over a average Plat player, we could have just said screw it can Tier 4 will pack our Tier 5 roster with Plats when things got tough but suman wanted to remain in the competition. Cant blame a person for getting better at the game, 1 week is left in the comp why argue over something silly? In the off season ZC will hopefully pick up a couple more Masters and hopefully some plat-diamond and diamond-masters promotions will mean they can make T3.

Yeah Suman was out of line with his rant he knows that but its easily to lose your temper when the pot is calling the kettle black


Just so you know some of our members have already used their name change to add ZC to their name

Id like to thank you for your input today because youve convinced me to do the same

Oh, I apologize then. I just assumed ZeroCraft still was what it was originally made for; just a team for players without clans to go in order to participate in this league. I didn't realise you guys actually made a clan out of it, which is a sick idea, so I take back my 'isn't really a clan' statement.

What's it matter whether I'm t2, t4 or t5 or just some random unknown player bringing the issue up? My position in the matter doesn't change anything, I'm not questioning how t4 is run, simply bringing this issue up. It was also highlighted HERE by riiChard, a Tier 1 leader, and there wasn't even a response by admins like there was in this thread. If anything, I feel me bringing the situation to the surface will at least make everyone more aware next time.

How was it the pot calling the kettle black? How in ANY way can you justify HIS reply to this thread? Sugar coat it all you like, it was a delibrate attempt at trolling by someone who has a reputation like his, it should have never been posted. He has since apologized for his actions, which is fine by me, but I'd still like to hear your reasoning behind 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

We get along dude, I have no problems with you and I apologize for calling your clan not a clan (I didn't know) but the rest of your post just makes me sad. It's been spoken about and that's all I was after; an explanation..

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

I'll just add to the Nightmare thing...

I played him in week 1, so if he's become GM since then, it's been through hard work and a lot of improvement, as he definitely belonged in this league week 1. Anyone else could have made the same leap as Nightmare has, but for whatever reason hasn't... so kudos to Nightmare for his achievement, he earned it.

How long into SEACL did the new season start? I'm going to say maybe 2-3 weeks. Going from a mid-masters player that season, to 3 weeks later being able to pull a 48-14 record in Gandmaster? Okay, looking forward to seeing this guy in GSL in about 2 months. I heard their team is disbanding after this SEACL season anyway, so best of luck to whatever team picks him up. Definitely a future powerhouse..

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

How long into SEACL did the new season start? I'm going to say maybe 2-3 weeks. Going from a mid-masters player that season, to 3 weeks later being able to pull a 48-14 record in Gandmaster? Okay, looking forward to seeing this guy in GSL in about 2 months. I heard their team is disbanding after this SEACL season anyway, so best of luck to whatever team picks him up. Definitely a future powerhouse..

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

Because this is T4 not T2

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

Because this is T4 not T2

What does that even mean?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been let into T4 in the first place, or that he should now be kicked out now?

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

Come on man, you can't be serious

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

We get along dude, I have no problems with you and I apologize for calling your clan not a clan (I didn't know) but the rest of your post just makes me sad. It's been spoken about and that's all I was after; an explanation..

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters, similar how your clans Tier 5 (conceptually BSG) started off with a good number of Plats and now even has diamonds (nothing against them congrats on the promotions) so it was its a little annoying when people (not just you) bag out ZC for having 1 guy who has gotten a little too good for what T4 was intended for (yeah no league restrictions etc)

Yeah suman didnt respond correctly while I dont agree with his response/troll (and even he says it was dumb of him) I can totally understand why he'd lose his stack

I think moving forward from this, no doubt next season rules can be put in place to accommodate issues like this, next season suman is looking to field a T3 team and I will probably look at fielding a T4 and T5 team again so if admins feel a player in our ranks is too strong we'll be happy to move him up a Tier

Quick Comments

	VB_Rhuubarb:	Completely agree
	Trinion:

[syfMiley]

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters

We started off with no masters and decided to field in one seeing that a bunch of other teams fielded in some.
Almost all of our active players got promotions, cept for me I just went backwards

Quick Comments

ToR.Arnor:

too much Dota ^_^

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

@ You and all those that are still replying with "get over it", I haven't pressed the issue ONCE since Lemminks replied to the thread with an explanation. The fact you posted AFTER he replied was unnecessary and that's why I commented on your post/opinion alone, not the whole situation. 48-14 isn't a lack of games this season, and the fact is hes boasting a 75% win ratio in grandmaster, something very few of even the top GM's can hold consistently. His lost was against Flar wasn't it? Lol. I'm not pressing the issue any more, it's been commented on by the admin and I'm happy that he took the time to reply before it got out of hand. You don't need to bring it up anymore, it's done.

==========

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters, similar how your clans Tier 5 (conceptually BSG) started off with a good number of Plats and now even has diamonds (nothing against them congrats on the promotions) so it was its a little annoying when people (not just you) bag out ZC for having 1 guy who has gotten a little too good for what T4 was intended for (yeah no league restrictions etc)

Yeah suman didnt respond correctly while I dont agree with his response/troll (and even he says it was dumb of him) I can totally understand why he'd lose his stack

I think moving forward from this, no doubt next season rules can be put in place to accommodate issues like this, next season suman is looking to field a T3 team and I will probably look at fielding a T4 and T5 team again so if admins feel a player in our ranks is too strong we'll be happy to move him up a Tier

The only reason our T4 had any masters players to begin with (Divinity being the only one) is because all the other teams were stacked with Masters. You don't know the full story, but we had a massive argument (I was actually the person leading the argument) against the people who wanted the T5 team to be stacked with plats. I made sure this wasn't the case for not only Edarus and everyone in T5's sake, but because they belonged in T4.

In tier 2, TA is on the opposing end of this stick; with theoretically 2 gm's that can play weekly + dippa whose games have to be rescheduled, competing with full-GM teams is tough and in my personal opinion we belonged in T3 from the start, however that's not the issue and I'm happy we're competing with these teams as I'm sure other T4 teams are the same when they take games off better players in their own tier.

I don't think it was the pot calling the kettle black as I was a massive influence on who belonged in what TA team, trying to get the teams as fair as possible in terms of their divisions and the tier they competed in. I guess I'm just a big believer in fair play and that's why I brought this issue up in the first place.

Peace.

Quick Comments

	KAshadowz:	sounds good to me
	FaDeBadger:
	TAriiChard:	well said mate

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

I don't think it was the pot calling the kettle black as I was a massive influence on who belonged in what TA team, trying to get the teams as fair as possible in terms of their divisions and the tier they competed in. I guess I'm just a big believer in fair play and that's why I brought this issue up in the first place.

Peace.

fair enough sorry for having a go at you thanks for taking the time to give me a little insight into it all

You need to start streaming again though bro T_T

peace

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

@ You and all those that are still replying with "get over it", I haven't pressed the issue ONCE since Lemminks replied to the thread with an explanation. The fact you posted AFTER he replied was unnecessary and that's why I commented on your post/opinion alone, not the whole situation. 48-14 isn't a lack of games this season, and the fact is hes boasting a 75% win ratio in grandmaster, something very few of even the top GM's can hold consistently. His lost was against Flar wasn't it? Lol. I'm not pressing the issue any more, it's been commented on by the admin and I'm happy that he took the time to reply before it got out of hand. You don't need to bring it up anymore, it's done.

I hardly feel as showing support for someone I played against is unnecessary, seeing as I have had experience with him. Also actually playing for and managing a team in t4, I felt like my opinion would provide some insight on how actual T4 players felt about him and that it was pretty cool for me to have beaten someone who would later become a GM. It also gives me hope that one day I could become as he is now. Which is a factor in these lower league, trying to improve ourselves and being able to compare our progression to others who were originally similar to us.

I would call quoting me on that, pressing the issue (after an admins post).

[x5_Potter]

Why hasn't any other team brought up the issue of GM players in this league? Surely you check the league of the person you're playing, and no other team has complained? Neg rep me if you will, but get the hell over it.

Quick Comments

	TAScaramanga:	you did ask for it
	ToRSpookToR:	scarmanga you are a ******* jerk so bm on ladder

[deL]

I have some of the outstanding lineups for the other teams but will be away for an hour or two now. I will update them when I am back! Check the thread closer to the play time tonight to see who you're up against

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

nicely run brendel

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

...There wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

To support Lost, you have to understand that at the time we play Nightmare compared to when you did, we saw a very different opponent. You saw a mid-masters player. We see a 48-14 top 50sh GM in Tier 4 - a record that is generally better than most Tier 2 players.


Do not get me wrong, this is definitely a commendable thing. But you have to understand why we all went "wtf?" and this issue was brought up.


Finally, I'm not whinging away so that I don't have to play him. I know it sounds ironic considering my record in this league (Which, by the way, has not been easy to get. I've had some -seriously- close BO3's). I look forward to our games though, and can only hope that they're nice and competitive!

[Zealo]

@divinity

note that of all the teams that have played KFC since he hit GM (when GM was released this season i believe), only TA have brought it up as an issue (by TA, i mean 1 TA player seems unreasonably upset, which is odd when he doesn't play in this league (i think)). saying rhuubarb is seeing the issue from a different POV to you and therefore can't understand is unfair. AsG is playing them this week (just like TA), i have no problems with him or any other players promoted to GM playing this week or in the finals.

the rules were stated clearly at the start of the season and haven't changed, that's why people are not sympathetic to the "WTF?!?!?" reaction from TA.

congrats on your awesome record this season and i'm hoping i get to watch some of TA vs KFC (particularly your games)

Quick Comments

Trinion:

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by Zealo

@divinity

note that of all the teams that have played KFC since he hit GM (when GM was released this season i believe), only TA have brought it up as an issue

I think it's also possibly because TA is one of the only teams in T4 that actually have high Masters/GM players at our disposal to put in T4 if we so wished.

With this in mind, your words towards Lost are unfair - he just voiced many (TA) people's sentiments. Also, Lost actually divided our players between T2/3/4, so it isn't random that he jumped into T4 and talked about this.

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

[Zealo]

back on topic

AsG vs KFC
zealo [2 > 1] TSAce

[AxS.Sorathez]

The match between FaDe 2 and HDMD-KT has been rescheduled to 6PM SGT (9PM AEDT) Friday 16/3/12 Agreement

TCP vs FaDe 2: current score: 2-3

Durrr < 2-1 > FaDeKazi (Metalopolis)
FYRE < Resched > Kerrigan (Shattered Temple) Rescheduled to just after the game vs HDMD-KT Agreement
ElementFC < W.O. > FaDeSagi (Dual Sight) Element did not turn up
TragicHero < 2-1 > FaDeSorathez (Calm Before the Storm)
ZiggyD < 1-2 > FaDePesi - ACE (Tal'Darim Altar)

Quick Comments

TragicHero:

I concur

[Zealo]

KFC - AsG
4 - 2

TSAce [1-2] zealo
KFCTrinion [2 - 0] thor
CbBTread [0 - 2]
KFCBukket [2 - 1] Nasch (wildcard)
Nightmare [2 - 0] Goose

great to have a hassle free series for once, thanks guys

[Valour]

Hi everyone, Nightmare here.

Firstly, sorry for making some people feel unfair that I'm in this league.

Last season I played lots of games, finishing with a mediocre record of 156-138 with 648 points, ranked #29 in Masters. That was the time at which I joined this tournament with Clan KFC.

When the new season came I was still in Masters League, after earning a lot of victories in a row I was promoted to GM for the first time. Therefore, the seemingly high win ratio can be mostly attributed to that fact.

While I may have improved a bit, I think my overall skill level is not way beyond this league. As VB_Rhuubarb himself has said, he took me down 2-1 in Week 1, and many other players in this league has definitely gave me a run for my money.

I hope this may offer some explanation to those who raised an eyebrow or two. Many thanks to the people who have congratulated me on my improvement.

Quick Comments

	deL:
	Bukket:
	Zealo:	♥
	TCPLemminks:	no worries
	VB_Rhuubarb:
	Trinion:

[Bukket]

Just regarding this entire ordeal about whether or not GM is allowed in T4.

As the current manager for KFC and a player, I'd just like to point out that we are all just a bunch of friends first and foremost. When Eric (KFCTrinion) approached us to play in a team league, we were all really excited. We got together and formed out team league debut. We managed to pick up Nightmare when he was low-mid masters, iirc. I remember I could have a 50/50 winrate with him at the time (I was high diamond, but good at TvT thanks to GomTvTvTvT!)

As you'll notice, many of the Ace matches during the start of the league was played by me (Bukket), but as the league progressed, we all trained hard and consequently improved. TSAce went from mid diamond to (currently) mid masters, while I went from high diamond to mid masters. As for Nightmare, even I didn't realise his potential as a player and he just started skyrocketing up. Mind you, he's VERY intelligent in real life and combined with hard work, look how he's turned out.

Nobody knew that he would improve so much (or even if it was possible to improve at such a rate) and he just happens to be a very rare success story. That led to him playing ace matches rather than me. As the competition continued, we realised with Nightmare, we could succeed very well in this league and so we have persevered. I hardly think it is fair to call foul on any player that has improved. If everyone tried hard enough, then we'd all have improved greatly and be in GM/Masters, but that's not the case.
At the time of we registered, he was honestly nowhere near GM and so I don't think that anyone is really at fault for improving so quickly.

KFC vs AsG

TSAce 1-2 AsGZealo
KFCTrinion 2-0 AsGThoR
CbBTreAd 0-2 wTJayAiWhy
KFCBukket 2-1 AsGNasch (subbed in for AsGArmi)
Nightmare 2-0 Goosejuice

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	♥ for the well worded message and the games tonight
	VB_Rhuubarb:
	Trinion:

[Zealo]

PDCL semi finals rematch!!!
same result! this time without Nasch
AsG vs VB

AsGZealo < 2-0 > VBSirhcle
AsGArmi < 2-0 > VBEverion
Jayaiwhy < 2-0 > VBBoony
Goosejuice < 2-0 > VBWhiplashJC
AsGThor < 2-0 > VBHpK*

*hpk was late/awol and i think it was whiplash said we could have walkover thinking he wouldn't show, but he showed up not too late and games were played in the end

thanks for being so friendly and helpful (as VB always are )

Quick Comments

VB_WhiplashJC:

[TAScaramanga]

Just to give my opinion, I don't have a problem with someone improving and I think its awesome that someone can improve to that extent. However, I do have a problem when a P/D player can't go out in a P/D league because he will be humiliated by Masters or in some cases GM's. Its fine to improve and have the standard of the competition increase but you have to draw the line somewhere. I agree you shouldn't be penalized for improving but is it fair to other teams that you continually send out a GM for ace?

[Valour]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

Just to give my opinion, I don't have a problem with someone improving and I think its awesome that someone can improve to that extent. However, I do have a problem when a P/D player can't go out in a P/D league because he will be humiliated by Masters or in some cases GM's. Its fine to improve and have the standard of the competition increase but you have to draw the line somewhere. I agree you shouldn't be penalized for improving but is it fair to other teams that you continually send out a GM for ace?

The question of whether this is "fair" or not, is already clearly answered by the admins on the previous page.

On a different note, I find it sad u would actually BM my clan mate (KFCBukket) who had such good and close games with TASlowhands.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...696_n.jpg?dl=1

Part of the rules of this tournament is no BM is allowed:
"Bad manner will not be tolerated. We make this competition on our free time so please, don't waste it. To make it simple, you bad manner, you're banned. Same comment for stream cheating."

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by Valour

The question of whether this is "fair" or not, is already clearly answered by the admins on the previous page.

On a different note, I find it sad u would actually BM my clan mate (KFCBukket) who had such good and close games with TASlowhands.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...696_n.jpg?dl=1

Part of the rules of this tournament is no BM is allowed:
"Bad manner will not be tolerated. We make this competition on our free time so please, don't waste it. To make it simple, you bad manner, you're banned. Same comment for stream cheating."

I was replying to Bukket.
How was that BM? I was complimenting him -_- Slowhands is better than he is and he took the series after losing game 1, great to see in a clutch situation

[Valour]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

I was replying to Bukket.
How was that BM? I was complimenting him -_- Slowhands is better than he is and he took the series after losing game 1, great to see in a clutch situation

Yes that was a screenshot from Bukket.

1) He beats Slowhands 2-1 and u say "congrats on winning, Slowhands is the better player"?
2) After u say that u block him.

I dunno, seems a little strange... XD

I apologize if u were truly complimenting him

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

Yeah was a compliment

[TASlowHands]

Originally Posted by Valour

The question of whether this is "fair" or not, is already clearly answered by the admins on the previous page.

On a different note, I find it sad u would actually BM my clan mate (KFCBukket) who had such good and close games with TASlowhands.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...696_n.jpg?dl=1

Part of the rules of this tournament is no BM is allowed:
"Bad manner will not be tolerated. We make this competition on our free time so please, don't waste it. To make it simple, you bad manner, you're banned. Same comment for stream cheating."

I dont know what happened after I logged off last night, so I cant comment on that. I was out of order last night, I was frustrated after losing game 2 literally because I didnt see a bunker until it was halfway done in my nat and marauder hellion all in in game 3. I feel like I let my team down to some really basic ladder shit after taking the first game and thats why I lashed out.

I just got mad when you were saying how 'good' and 'close' the games were when the last two were actually terrible games. I shouldnt have acted the way I did, especially if for some inexplicable reason you truly thought the last 2 games were good. So sorry for that.

[VB_WhiplashJC]

T4 is not and has never been a P/D league.

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by VB_WhiplashJC

T4 is not and has never been a P/D league.

If T5 is a BSG leauge and T4 is a masters leauge, where are the P/D meant to play?

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	at this point you're making things up
	TADivinity:	Counter rep. Even Nirvana in his post put P&D symbols next to T4yn
	VB_Rhuubarb:	If it was P/D league then there would have been restrictions.

[Zealo]

If T5 is a BSG leauge and T4 is a masters leauge, where are the P/D meant to play?

T5 is not a BSG league and T4 is not a masters league, so your question is irrelevant

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

yes, yes they are

[TCPLemminks]

Woah guys chill, save it for the play offs. It can't be helped that this has become more of a masters league because players are improving, a lot of the teams have at least 1 masters player, and many diamonds who should be in masters.
If you guys want next season we could do something T5 has been doing and limiting the number of you can field. However deL has been against this and I am a bit too.

[deL]

I hunger for results

[TAEdgE]

Scaramanga is just a weirdo, he probably was actually complimenting (he says it like that).. Don't know about the block, maybe misclick checking profile :?

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

That explains everything

[FaDeBadger]

I'd just like to add as a part of the admin team for this whole SEACL there were essentially no league restrictions for the different tiers. Obviously we had a general idea that T5 would probably end up BSG and T4 would be mostly PD and that was how it started out.

I know in T3 we had a couple of Masters players get promoted to GM and if that clan had a team in a higher tier we asked if they would mind moving them up but it was by no means a hard and fast rule.

It was the same in the BSG and PDCL before the SEACL was started, promotions during the season do not mean that person can no longer play.

With that in mind, there should be a feedback thread go up not long after the league actually finishes and if you feel like this issue hasn't been dealt with to your liking or would like further clarification in the official rule set please feel free to bring it up there.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:
	Valour:

[KAshadowz]

is anyone from naz online?
nevermind got crispy

[TragicHero]

FaDe 1 v TCP


1 (wildcarded) FaDeEpic < MLG Metalopolis > Durrr 2
FaDeLemon < MLG Shattered Temple > FYRE resched
2 Honeybadger < GSL Dual Sight > ElementFC (wildcarded TCPLemminks) 0
FaDeRawfish < GSL Calm Before The Storm > TragicHero resched
0 FaDeMouse < MLG Tal'Darim Altar > ZiggyD 2 w/o

[AxS.Sorathez]

TCP vs FaDe 2:

Durrr < 2-1 > FaDeKazi (Metalopolis)
FYRE < 1-2> Kerrigan (Shattered Temple) Rescheduled to just after the game vs HDMD-KT Agreement
ElementFC < W.O. > FaDeSagi (Dual Sight) Element did not turn up
TragicHero < 2-1 > FaDeSorathez (Calm Before the Storm)
ZiggyD < 1-2 > FaDePesi - ACE (Tal'Darim Altar)

TCP 2-4 FaDe 2

[KAshadowz]

ToR vs Naz

ace match
Shadowz < 2-1> NaZCrispy

[Zealo]

del: i noticed on the ladder in OP for this thread AsG's games played did not add up with our W/D/L numbers

we have lost 3 times, not 2 (prior to this week)

i didn't check if map scores were correct