[PapaBigBelly]

There are many ways us Starcraft 2 players train to improve. The reason to improve may vary, however we all strive to accomplish it. So how do you train?

[iM yang]

I do every single one of those and I recommend everybody to do them, depending on your mood.

I personally like customs with friends better than me who can pick up on the bigger flaws in my game.

Quick Comments

Zealo:

i was going to say the same thing

[Next_rim]

1) Ladder
2) Keep track of wins and losses to pin-point weak maps and matchups
3) Watch own replays with focus on precise things, adjust builds
4) Ladder

[TAXanT]

Laddering and watching back on replays to see what gave my opponent the edge that made him win. Also I watch my wins to see what I could of done better, bases I didn't scout, what I lacked, etc.

Eg: Did a FFE into mass blink stalkers vs a zerg the other day who had roaches with burrow and the upgrade so they can move underground. I destroyed his army JUST before burrow was completed and had no observer whatsoever on the field. Which I've noticed I forget regularly when I do the forge expand and don't go for robot tech.

But yeah, mainly I just keep laddering

[Aean(:]

Mass laddering. I dont think im at the stage where the other options will be too useful to me, im still learning heaps from self-evaluation in-game.

[SiZeMaTTeRs]

Laddering for me are practice matches

[scrawL]

spamming ladder games is a joke lol

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by scrawL

spamming ladder games is a joke lol

tell that to Kas

[ROOT`iaguz]

Bit of everything. When I feel like I don't understand how to open in a matchup anymore I pop open a stream or some replays and watch until I like something I see. Then I play it out and see what happens.

Lots of laddering. On occasion someone like pig, light, jimdiddy or whoever asks for some practice matches. Those are good, but not part of my usual "how does I get this build and transitions to work"

Some thinking can come into it. Perhaps I like a certain early game or midgame look, like 2 factories in TvZ for hellions, making a few of them and then switching into 2 factory tanks for my pushes later on. Generally I notice these things when watching pr0 replays though, like "oh wow, he did this and this and now his medivacs are coming out a minute faster. I think I'll try that!", or "Oh damn MKP so sexy. Let's take his 1 base plays and terrorize protosses"

And after I see something I like, figure out how to open it, notice how they transition you jump on ladder and trial it a ton. Then figure out what else to use

[Daboo]

I dont think there is one single way.

I'm not a high level player, I basically look at replays from big tourneys (MLG DH etc), and see if I can replicate them against the very easy AI, try to match the timings. And then If I feel confident about it I try to use it in the ladder, otherwise I play with it with clan people and see if it works, and if I like it, I take it to the ladder and try it out. At my league, if you can follow a build accurately, you can more or less win most ladder matches (hopefully I will be getting out soon ).

[dippa]

press find game, go on win streak, feel good. press find game, going on losing streak, hit desk and feel suicidal. play last game of the day, win, feel good again.

repeat 24/7

Quick Comments

Nemo:

lol

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by iaguz

Lots of laddering. On occasion someone like pig, light, jimdiddy or whoever asks for some practice matches. Those are good, but not part of my usual "how does I get this build and transitions to work"

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by Daboo

I dont think there is one single way.

Context son! context, there is no single way to practice but there are proven better and more efficient ways to practice

[SkyBreaker]

I'm a bit of a mix-bag... I like to ladder as much as possible, study my own replays, watch replays of various high-level Protoss players, play customs against higher level players and tune into various streams; all while using an excel document for keeping track of my ladder performance and a notepad for keeping track of current issues and what not.

It seems to be working, but definitely could use some refinement.

[Rythos]

My mechanics still need a lot of work, so I mostly just spam ladder games trying to improve the basics, with some YABOT sessions thrown in when I feel like I'm not executing a build correctly.

[divinesage]

I like watching streams, teaches you unit composition and crisis management as well as macro timings and stuff. Of course you also learn to be faster with your APM.

After that, go try it out on customs with friends and then to the ladders. Ladder games are important as you probably know the playstyle of your friend which makes the game very predictable for you.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by Unstable

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

It's true that a dedicated team of practice partners who all play together and develop strategies and all that is effective. I think it's foolish to try and argue this with the coach of a team who did this and most probably did improve massively as a result of living together in Korea for a month or so. It's what the KOreans did in BW and SC2 and it's one big reason why they kill everyone.

But there's nothing wrong with thinking "hey this build might be fun" and throwing it out in the random swirling maelstrom of ladder games to see what happens to it when it is exposed to literally everything that can happen to it. Sometimes it's obvious "oh my blue flame drop tvp gets smashed if he opens Phoenix. That's quite obvious!", but there's also lots of subtleties that you can still get without having to grind out with specific people like "oh I"m adding marauders way too early into my TvT build" or "hey, this style looks like it'll be weak if I hit it like this".

And thanks to my KR account, I know I"ll never want for people of roughly equal or better skill value as me.

EDIT- one final thing. Ret said that most of his training for MLG and Bnet Euro invitational was ladder games with maybe some practice partnering. But he is Ret so w/e.

[Malik]

mostly ladder but if there is a specific problem that i have identified then i will play a number of customs against people in order to figure out how to deal with it.

[shmiman]

Yeah I mostly ladder as well. Sometimes I just try to execute and experiment new builds to try to counter the matchups i play terribly against, such as ZvZ. But prolly practice partners are needed for that soo yeah. or else you wont know how well would a build go.

[Halstrom]

f) All of the above

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

So, for example, you want to play a TvT. You want to practice build A. That person will have to know how:
A) Build A works;
B) Have Build A1, A2, A3 etc.
C) Know how those builds unfold into late or end game
D) Mechanically execute those builds on your level of play.

Damn that's asking a lot! :O This is only available in a pro setting, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Unstable.

I recommend playing by time or schedule. Like what so:

A) Play 2 hrs every day of the week for 5 days, using the same build (impt).
B) Take 1-2 hrs categorising play into race divisions and analysing that specific build against race match ups and what you can work on when going up against different builds.
C) Refine build.
D) Play again until comfortable.

This takes forever. But you will be very good at one build. For example, I always 1raxFE. Now, after a year of SC2, I know two branches of 1raxFE really well - 1raxFE into marine/tank and 1raxFE into marauder/ghost/viking. I know what to do for all-ins rushes, late game, research timings, attack timings, expansion timings etc. little things like that. So while I might be boring, I thoroughly understand my build and what to transition to in late game. I must've played 100 games with 1raxFE, and I still have problems with Protoss. It takes a while if you want to improve alone.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by iaguz

It's true that a dedicated team of practice partners who all play together and develop strategies and all that is effective.

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!




While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

The thing is, you need a very good partner for this, because if you get an inferior partner, then your timings will be all wrong . Am I right to assume this?

[iM yang]

Laddering will be sufficient practice for anybody below masters excluding specific situations which you want to practice, cheese defense being one of those situations.

[Melite]

Spamming ladder games and practice games with partners are the two ways I go.

[crAzerk]

It's mostly ladder, I play random so I learn every game! For example, after losing to a Protoss build when I got Zerg, I will try out that build when I get P against Z. Pretty fun system I have going

[NDG.Stitch]

Love this thread. I've been looking for something like this for a while. I think for me, sometimes I just mass ladder for fun because it gives me a sense of achievement when I keep winning, whereas, I might not spend that much time on practicing my technique. But I think as Unstable said, honestly if you have a team, you should utilize it more. There's no point in raping ladder if you can't prove yourself worthy in tournaments. A good player with well-trained mechanics should have no problem with ladder.

[Muldeh]

How do you get around the issue of knowing what your practice partner is going to do.. and therefore having the upper hand?

[MazEi]

Well think of it as if its a practice match, why play to win(unless you're trying to see whether a certain build is win-able). Whenever I play against my friends I'd look to try and improve some aspect in mechanics or try to smooth out a build. Basically try to not think of what he is doing and think what you want to do to improve.

[inFeZa]

If you REALLY Want to improve - BW Style you sit down with a friend play match after match with each other, and go over the replays together.

or..

SPAM LADDER GAMES.

[sRFullstop]

I identify my weakest matchup, and just find people who play that race to play with me.

[lolwut]

I generally ladder and watch pro replays of the matchups i have trouble with.

[syfMiley]

I talk serious strategy with my homie g's yo.

Quick Comments

toneg:

I was promised a gay boner

[Neoneoz]

It'll be really good if you know what are you weak at , then check your replays and spam ladder games after you corrected your mistake

[TAEdgE]

I've personally always had a ladder anxiety (at least on my main account on SEA for example) and i have always noted that practicing on ladder, particularly at certain times on SEA and on NA is not beneficial for learning, it is only beneficial for possibly seeing a few holes in your build (cheese) or mechanical practice (new hotkeys, getting macro/injects up, focusing on creep spread).

Right now i have started practicing again, and i am someone who procrastinates alot because if my mind is not in something, i do not perform near my best or improve near the level i could if my mind was there.

My routine is basically about 4 hours a day of playing, 5 max, 2 minimum. I play with a set list of practice partners, who are likely to rape me and show me big and small holes in my builds, style and overall mechanical play (from replays). I will take those games (which help alot) and ladder (normally ladder if i don't have anyone to own me or teach me). Laddering is on korea by the way, sometimes NA or SEA to warm up mechanics for a while. I then start to put my builds that i slowly refine and work the kinks out for against the dickheads known as Koreans, who throw any and every tactic there is, whether it's never attack, always attack, always harass, or for the hell of it blind cannon rushes and 6 pool crawler all ins.

I personally have been someone who improves a lot, fast. I adapt and learn new builds fast, so this counter-acts the problem of not playing much. I suspect that if i actually played as much as some others on the SEA server, i wouldn't be as good right now as i may be with refined and practice that suits me, because as i stated before i don't play well if my mind isn't there, and i force practice i only practice mechanical skill, and being a BroodWar player my mechanics stay untouched even after long breaks from SC2. So, playing when im motivated to is like 3x the practice of some others, which i really love.

The big thing about my practice that gets me through and probably helped me to get where i am is the LAST option in the poll with 2 votes. I'm someone who thinks A LOT, about anything and everything. It could be seen as my downfall in some aspects of life, but it has allured me to the field of psychology which i currently study, but i see it as nothing but a bonus. I will have constant random thoughts of things. I will for example play out games in my head due to having a picture oriented memory, and imagine battles and imagine 'what if i had hydras here?' and see that. I would then rekindle those thoughts, and in a game i would try it out. I now have gained a better mental image of how things go in that situation, and i keep thinking of possible ways to abuse this. How could i get a bigger advantage before such a fight? How would a followup work? What do i have to look out for? I do this with EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT. OPTION. Whether it's tank heavy mech, thor heavy mech, a marine/hellion drop, a stalker/immortal/sentry ball fight, a 7 gate all in, a roach infestor battle, a muta vs non muta game. I will create theorys constantly and finally create an image of what i want to do and try when i play.

Right now, i am comparing my current play to top zergs. I do this through FPVOD's. I see every little thing they do, and see what i do similar, even if its mechanical. I look for little subtle differences in our play, and ask myself 'why do they do this?' I'll look at crisis management the most, and there reactions to seeing a huge group of units or a perculiar tech option. You combine what other players see, and therefore do and imagine what you would do, and try to find the balance of what works best for your playstyle, and what is most comfortable for you to use.

If i had to create a list of my practice habits and what i suggest to you if you are not a mass gamer, i'd say this:

1) Find practice partners that are your level or above. Willing and above is very important. Play your best and accept losses, and just try things. Just test theory's in your head, don't stick to pinpoint timing. You are not IdrA.
2) Ladder. Ladder exposes you to all sorts of different play. Cheeses, unorthodox timings, passive macro etc. You can see what you find the hardest to vs with your builds and replay analyse the games, and assess things you want to try vs such a problem. Experimenting is fun!
3) Replay analyse. As said above, checking replays is key. I personally don't check every replay because i can see how i lose a game 80% of a time, but there are those games where you just lose and want to see what you could have done because you cannot think of one when recollecting thoughts of a game. Also analyse pro players replays, and do it on there first person view. This will not only help you with the raw builds and reactions to things, but will help with mental stability (seeing them react a certain way will calm you in a game and will make crisis management easier)
4) Talk about the game. This is where TA helps so much, i can just talk shit and get ideas from listening to anyone talk, and they can talk about any match up as long as it's talk. Watching events with people and analyzing the games yourselves and trying to predict what will happen and seeing if you are right is very good training
5) Think about the game. Think about every aspect of the game you can. My favourite is imagining my current builds and or future builds against various types of play from the other races, and imagining the battles, the harassment, the defensive timings. Thinking about the game will help with the actual analysing of replays or playing of practice partners because ideas will be in your head and questions will be there to ask.
6) Have fun! Don't stress! For nearly all of us this is a side-dish to what we may do in real life in the big picture. Enjoy the fact that your imagination can run wild with a game, enjoy that you have people just like you who dig a game that you do. Try also to give respect to each player, which i am learning to do, and just GG out or do not leave smart ass comments. If you rage, and you will, we all damn do, do it to a friend or let it out in your own room on your own. You'll feel better if you give respect to each player you play.

Good luck!

Quick Comments

	ToRDeathsFang:	OMFG why do all these Zergs have so much theorycraft!!
	Nemo:	Awesome ! Thanks Edge and thanks sc2sea :)

[BossDaddy]

All of the above.
Spam Ladder games to get better in terms of execution, and familiarity with gameplay.
Practice custom games with friends/clan to get their feedback and give some in return.
Rehearsing build orders so you don't miss out on important timings.
Watching other's replay and pro replays so you understand the workings behind their metagame and pick up specific gameplay, tricks and tips.
Lastly, premeditation or visualization off the computer. This is only pretty capable when you've got a good sense of the game and it helps you prepare subconsciously for your matches.

Also hit the gym. train your arms a bit. Its said that the stronger your muscles are the better control you have over them. Hence your mouse hand/arm should have very very good control, so gym it!

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	exercise is important! yes
	ToRPandarine:	Exercise-craft!! :D

[ROOT`iaguz]

I just make marines.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Take some medivacs too to dump the gaz. :D

[Digby]

Mass team games.

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I just make marines.

Told you marines are good.

[ROOT`iaguz]

No-ones denying marines are good. You just cannot win with ONLY Marines.

Sometimes you need SCV's and bunkers too

[simon]

my practice is similar to the rest of you.

ladder
watch some of my own replays that i lose.
watch heaps of pros replays.
ladder

i dont get to custom much though as i have no team

[phoney]

ladder
custom 1v1
watch streams
write alot of notes (quite effective for me)

[simon]

i also have a notepad. comes in handy when your initially learning a heavy macro style that needs you to be clinical up to 100ish food

[phoney]

1 more thing. IMAGE training works wonders too

[mGGAequitas]

I constantly play custom games against ppl far better than me like grandmasters.

[Sc2Clare]

mass laddering for me... since i got no life :P

[Philymaniz]

I play with my wonderful friends in Relentless Heroes, and spam ladder games. I also watch tons and tons of vods.

[Champi]

I watch the day9 daily, where I learn. To be a better gamer!

Quick Comments

EscapisT:

ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

[ZergGirl]

There is no 'DO NOTHING' option, yet still remain decent.

I pick that one.

[mGGAequitas]

yes zerg girl natural talent is awesome too

[TABjornbrandr]

Ladder games and customs are the major active component for me, but a huge amount of time is put into watching the Day9 daily and as many casts as I can find.
I generally look at shoutcasts for openings vs different opponent openings and then search for details of that opening on TL.net or something. Day9 is mostly a mechanics comprehension lesson for me.

[PapaBigBelly]

Yeah Day9 does give lots of "Eye Opening" tips
however i feel that his shows are just too loong and not time efficient when training
but day9 does spark interest in people to actually start thinking about their game

[souljah]

I dont really include watching dailies as part of my training per say, and while I used to watch all his dailies religiously, nowadays I only watch the intensive analysis of games for learning purposes. Mostly ladder, or a couple of custom games with my clan mates constitute how I train, whether now or in the past.

[ZergGirl]

Turn on skyfms 80s stream, play casually until 'Danger Zone' comes on and then play/rage/scream like a madwoman and when it's all over? training complete. I have progressed.

Quick Comments

Apth:

Fantastic.

[syfMiley]

Originally Posted by TAChampi

I watch the day9 daily, where I learn. To be a better gamer!

Keep on dreaming pal

[c_kAelle]

Ladder for 11+ hours on my free days. i accept custom games when invited.

i think that getting into a team/clan will greatly improve skillz... but mass laddering is how i practice currently

[c_kAelle]

also mass watching of pro games. especially gsl and mlg