[PulseSPR]

Oh no I can't access Twitch in china

[Peleus]

I watched this replay last night.

As a bit of a disclaimer, I know pulse who is in my clan has been posting in his defence, but I've got no relationship with ghost or motivation to defend or accuse him one way or the other.

In that replay I can't find anything overtly suspect, or once more enough to make me suspect a map hack. A slightly suspicious moment was his selecting his units before the attack came in, but other than that there wasn't anything I could pick up without explanation. Some points in his favour - Scouting probe was sent, and not only that but his player cam actually focused on the probe to examine his base, meaning he is trying to scout. Later on there was an engagement after trying to place a pylon at the watch tower but unfortunately it was caught out of position and killed by the army.

Sorry that I haven't watched your vod nemo, and you may have raised more issues, but I suppose on the flip side of things if it isn't obvious for a first watch / examination perhaps we're looking for things a bit too hard.

Again, inconclusive enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

P.s. If it is a hack, i don't think it's a map hack, I think it's a minimap hack. Any suspect things raised so far could be shown by being able to see his units on the minimap, with broad general unit movements apparent. It doesn't seem as though he is actually looking through the map however because his camera movements are always located within his base, not looking over fog of war, etc.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Sorry that I haven't watched your vod nemo, and you may have raised more issues, but I suppose on the flip side of things if it isn't obvious for a first watch / examination perhaps we're looking for things a bit too hard.

I fact no. I found that it's sometimes little things that can give away the most the Map Hacking.

Yes you missed 3 other points, the second of them being the most evident sign of Map Hack for me.

• The first is him sending his stalker behind his Natural while he couldn't know there was a SCV coming in that direction.
• The second is the way he reposition his 2 zealots an 1 stalker when Timber does a fake push with 2 marauder he doesn't see at all.
• The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

And the selection of units you saw is very suspect too. In fact I'm convinced after seing the 4 games and being able to see 3 super suspect games by all aspects and one where it's completely obvious by so many signs he's not hacking.


Try again to watch my Vod. You will understand why I'm so convinced. Anyway, it seems nobody cared to watch it because there is no comment. It's a shame but I understand that the dethgate has taken all the time of everyone. The sound is stuttering a bit but I'm still understandable I think.

I will make an usual Screenshot analysis tomorrow then.

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

P.s. If it is a hack, i don't think it's a map hack, I think it's a minimap hack. Any suspect things raised so far could be shown by being able to see his units on the minimap, with broad general unit movements apparent. It doesn't seem as though he is actually looking through the map however because his camera movements are always located within his base, not looking over fog of war, etc.

I confirm, he never looks into the fog of war. So I confirm it's only informations on the minimap that he can use, whether or not it's complete Map Hack. Evets wasn't looking in the FoW too but it was still confirmed Map Hack. It's just that it is more easy to restrain to look where you're not suppose to see. It's harder not to take into account at all or discretely what you are forced to see on the Minimap.

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Nemo

[*]The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

[xGKingdelete]

watching the VOD

For finding the SCV, I think that was just a coincidence. He knew the SCV had either returned home, or was hiding around for secondary scouting. So it was a good idea to check around his base for the SCV, and he did that as soon as possible (he built the nexus, and straight away sent the stalker to scout around).

I agree with the other things, though (I think, it's really hard to understand with the video stutter). I just find it really suspicious that he's playing blind in all of these games, no secondary scouts, no watchtowers, etc.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

Exactly.

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Yes, The only time he scouts in this game is when there is something useful to find. In the game N°3 (when he did not map hacked), he was scouting permanently and often without finding anything.

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

Humm, maybe my English betrayed me, I don't have the impression that I wanted to say that.

I think :

• When he Map hack => doesn't scout at all or is being super lucky with his only scout (stalker)
• When he doesn't Map Hack => He scout permanently and just have standard luck.
• Normal attitude when sending forward drone = Put Pylon and go forward with the drone.
  • Game 2 (MH): His drone is about to be attacked by timber army (but he doesn't see it in his vision) : He backs it instead of going forward.
  • Game 4 (MH): His drone is not going to be attacked this time and go forward (as normal).
  • So in game 2 he knew for sure he was going to be attacked without having the "normal" vision of it => Stronger evidence of Map hack

Edit : My posted didn't make sense, I edited it. Did it yesterday just before going to bed.

[ChaynesOre]

I don't usually notice hackers in game but after the EvetS stuff I've kept an extra vigil in a way..

Anyway, just played against this no-name (?) like me and it felt a bit off to me. PvZ on XNC - I went for a speed rush, he went an FFE/sortof thing..
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249219

Two things I thought were odd during the game: 1) He never scouted my main; 2) He had cannons prepped in his main way earlier than I typically find is normal doing this build.

Watching the replay: 1) He clicks on my base through the fog several times (not to scout so he's not there to issue a move command); 2) He clicks on my lings as they're rallying across the map, and at the spot where they gather several times; 3) He seems to re-actively change up his build (i.e. building the pylon earlier in his main, which I don't think is normal when doing what he was doing); 4) The "tells" die down a bit during the action, then he clicks on my stuff a few more times when he tries to re-macro up.

Also, copy pasting the chat I had with him after game 'cause why not..

CraftKing: cheeser king
CraftKing has reconnected.
You: i dont know, what is wrong with me?
CraftKing: ok
nvm
You: you're maphacking arent you?
CraftKing: no i dint i check your expansion u din expand so i guess u rush
You: nah i'm watching the rep, you keep looking in fog of war at my shit
CraftKing: my probe scout
You: and there was no reason for you to cannon your main like that
CraftKing: u din expand
You: you didn't know lings were there
CraftKing: man u see the replay ok
You: gonna report this
CraftKing: i din hack u just do report thank you
u rush ok i saw u
You: g'night
CraftKing: no expand in 2 minit i know u rush

Any thoughts?

EDIT: I've had two other guys in FaDe agree with me.. and you know how hard it is for us to admit there's a hacker :P lol jks -- but yeh, should probably add him to the list even though he's a pretty bad player and a no-name

Quick Comments

Nemo:

For exposing cheaters and doing preciselly

[ToRSpartaz]

I hate that CraftKind.... 2 Gate Proxys me every bloody game... he may be a map hacker from the watching the reps.

Quick Comments

	ChaynesOre:	now that you mention it, that may have been what he was doing with his original probe before seeing my early pool...
	ROOTPetraeus:	Moar spelling mistakes :DDD

[wTlzq]

Hi guys, rank 200 GM StrayKIDS is using some mass-ladder leaving hack. Hes onto 1K+ games now. Kindly report him thx~

[ChaynesOre]

I've got an update regarding CraftKing who I posted about 4 posts up (http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=152).

REPLAY: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249299

Played him again just now and there's just more of the same. He scouts me first, no surprise and sort of sends a probe in for a mandatory "look I sent probe scout so I didn't hack" thing, but doesn't really scout with it (see in replay). He then leaves and continues to have his camera over my base at 1:17, 2:53, 3:30, 4:10, 4:42, 7:12, etc... He also sends his probe down immediately after seeing my expo to try to cannon it. Has a stupid amount of cannons at his main when I get there (although a good player would suspect an all-in anyway) - However!! These all drop as soon as my army moves out across the map.

Comments on the game itself:
ZvP on Antiga. I open up early-ish pool and throw a spine up for defense because of the other person's comment above saying that he always double proxygate's. Then I just go for a roach/ling all in figuring he's most likely gone FFE after I haven't seen zealots for awhile, because I don't want to play him for very long if he's hacking -- I wasn't sure how to play him, knowing he was looking at everything I did :S

He's a very poor player and seems to change his mind about what he's doing a lot. I think he's only started hacking and is struggling with how to use the information and not give it away.

Also had a chat with him after game again, pasted because it's hillarious, lol:

You: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=152
CraftKing has reconnected.
CraftKing: what is that
You: hahahaha
oh man, more evidence
CraftKing: ??
You: your account is defo getting banned
CraftKing: im not hacker this is not my acc
and i din hack
You: play as many games as possible mate coz the blizzard ban hammer is coming
two games i've played you, you hack
CraftKing: are u sure u wrong person?
You: nope
why would you keep looking at my base through fog of war?
CraftKing: i think u wrong
You: unless you could see it with a hack
you do this many times
CraftKing: watever man u said i hack i got probe scout
You: no response?
CraftKing: watever man i got probe scout
You: lol god damn it's a brick wall
for a hacker, you play terribly
CraftKing: u noob la
my probe go check u said i hack
wtf are u
LOL
i wont get baneed
blizzarf got my reply
he said i din hack
haha
You: lol, blizzard said you don't hack?
what?
he?
CraftKing: blizzard reply me about that .. he said i din hack
You: lol okay I'm sure they did
where are you from and how old are you?
CraftKing: blizzard said my probe scout..
You: rofl
could you paste what they said?
I'm curious
just any complete sentence or two will do

Quick Comments

TAXanT:

What a noobslice.

[EveLoire]

^ his whole argument about him not hacking is with that probe scout........... hilarious... hope all these hackers get banned asap

[Zealo]

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

[Rage]

Originally Posted by Zealo

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

sounds like he was just messing around with you with the pause thing and I nearly always scout cross positions first on a lot of maps.

Quick Comments

ChaynesOre:

Yeh, scouting cross first allows you to determine whether you play a more macro game or not (any other position) very quickly, so that's not entirely damning.

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by Zealo

player optiX :

he openned the game by spamming pause then asking me to do the same. said something about that turning on his hacks (may have been joking), i played pretty badly from that point worrying about it anyway. scouted me first in cross positions is about the most damning thing i guess :/

i thought the bunker in his main was a giveaway at the time but he did see the void briefly with the watch tower

put in the maybe category i guess?

having hacks activated by pause spam does seem unlikely

I don't think this is at all conclusive. IMO he probably just hates TvP and was making jokes about it with the pause spam, unfortunately I can't see pauses in the replay. Cross position scouting is super normal, I do it myself....

[crAzerk]

I have reviewed this replay :

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft...oad&&id=249299

And it seems to be conclusive proof of hacking - the constant glancing into the fog of war at your base is a giveaway sign of maphack.

Thus, added CraftKing to the 'Confirmed Hackers' list, go Blizz report him too. One game of blatant maphack suffices for me to classify him as such, if nirvana or other mods feel otherwise feel free to say so and shift him to 'suspected'.

Quick Comments

	ChaynesOre:	ty, I added a second replay after catching him again on ladder today
	nirvAnA:

[Frogmite]

Could someone have a closer look to Craftking replays please?

He's playing in our TCP team for SEACL and i would like to be sure he's not guilty of hacking.
He's a new player to the clan so i can't vouch for him.

If we can't find enough proofs i'll let him play and hope that everybody will not accuse him of cheating.

If it's confirmed he is hacking, i'll ban him from the clan and the SEACL.

Quick Comments

ChaynesOre:

I've had 6 fade people look at it and agree with me but I'll let you guys double check if necessary.

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Could someone have a closer look to Craftking replays please?

He's playing in our TCP team for SEACL and i would like to be sure he's not guilty of hacking.
He's a new player to the clan so i can't vouch for him.

If we can't find enough proofs i'll let him play and hope that everybody will not accuse him of cheating.

If it's confirmed he is hacking, i'll ban him from the clan and the SEACL.

Actually, just looked this up for you. It isn't the same guy as in your team (unless that's a second account). The guy I played is "CraftKing" not "CraftKings". I tried adding "CraftKing" and the character code specified in the team roster and it didn't work, but added your guy with an "s" and it did. He plays protoss too and has many more games so either it's a second account or he's just unlucky enough to have a very similar name to the hacker..

EDIT: He does mention in the after-game chat I had with him that it's not his main account.. Not enough to convict your player though. Probably just keep an eye on him or ask him about it. The hacker had a very "specific" way of chatting so that might be a tell in itself if you have a chat to your guy?

[krycek]

Originally Posted by chaynesore

Actually, just looked this up for you. It isn't the same guy as in your team (unless that's a second account). The guy I played is "CraftKing" not "CraftKings". I tried adding "CraftKing" and the character code specified in the team roster and it didn't work, but added your guy with an "s" and it did. He plays protoss too and has many more games so either it's a second account or he's just unlucky enough to have a very similar name to the hacker..

EDIT: He does mention in the after-game chat I had with him that it's not his main account.. Not enough to convict your player though. Probably just keep an eye on him or ask him about it. The hacker had a very "specific" way of chatting so that might be a tell in itself if you have a chat to your guy?

our member IS CraftKing and we are building evidence on him and it isnt looking good, no details at thuis time but lets say the story is pretty much like yours.

EDIT: here is a match between a friend and him
http://terranimba.com/replay/YxddD5URmD

[ChaynesOre]

Originally Posted by TCPkrycek

our member IS CraftKing and we are building evidence on him and it isnt looking good, no details at thuis time but lets say the story is pretty much like yours.

Interesting.. I'm 30s into the replay you posted and it seems like the same blatant business already. If he's the same guy signed up for your team then that's unfortunate Good luck with handling it -- I'd like to think for your team's sake I'm wrong but oh well, if I'm not, it's good to get it sorted early before the competition begins. Still got until tomorrow to replace him I think

EDIT: OMG, it doesn't get any more obvious than when the zerg does the in base hatch and he goes to pull all his probes without seeing it...

[crAzerk]

@Frogmite In the replay which I stated, it's obvious he is hacking, with his multiple glances into the Fog of War at his opponent's base. I don't know about other replays, but I assume one time maphack is sufficient to say that he is a maphacker?

EDIT: Lolol how much does maphack tell you? Does it show Production tab too? 5:50 when he moves his Probe blindly in to cannon the Zerg player, he then realizes lings are about to pop (with no vision whatsoever) and cancels his Pylon and tries to run away.

Later, when the Zerg player starts production of 9 Roaches, he responds with a Stargate - it shouldn't be a normal build order since he's only one 2 gas.
7:30 - adds additional cannons with no scouting whatsoever, in preparation for the Roach/Ling allin.

Pretty conclusive just based on this replay, if he protests or anyone protests it's insufficient evidence I'll have a look at others too.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Props for making precise inquiries