SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

crAzerk · Thu, 22nd-Dec-2011, 1:20 PM

In terms of streamers, just one official stream is needed.

For the other matches, as per usual, individual clans will have their own streamers who want to cast/stream the games even if nothing is said about it. At least that has been what I've been observing all along.

**nirvAnA** · Thu, 22nd-Dec-2011, 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatnoicepls

As a sideline on the streaming issue, Having an ''official'' stream showing the best games sounds like a good idea. Maybe the fact that clans will want to watch each other and cheer each other on could be addressed by someone in the clan streaming their clans games, so long as the games arent simultaneous im sure someone in the clans could stream and cast them for the rest of the clans enjoyment. Big events often have mulitple streams/streamers with different content.

Yeap definitely. This is what we intended, having one official stream and other streamers from their own clans will be welcome to stream their own games.

DeNile · Thu, 22nd-Dec-2011, 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

I agree with this a lot!

I also think there should be a weekly recap where all the casters talk about the games played and the interesting things they saw during the week along with how they feel the times will do in the future and next weeks. That would be really cool for me ;D

Agreed and for each division knowing that alot of the tier 4 and 3 maybe even 2 games may not be casted maybe withing each division the addmins could write a short wrap up over the match ups they saw? Will be hard to cover every match up but a little write up would be nuice even if its only one or two of every set of matches.

This could even become the new weekly show

we have a couple of set casters who let admins call in about results for there league and a little discrption of what happened in the match they saw and any info they can gather.

Sedz · Fri, 23rd-Dec-2011, 1:50 AM

EDIT: Read crazerk's post about streamers.

**syfChadMann** · Sat, 24th-Dec-2011, 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

@del and Chad

It builds up tension for starters, if one team is 2-0, the third game is very important for the team without a win, and puts some pressure on the player, as well as makes it more exciting. If you do 3 games at once, you'll finish watching the first game, and the commentator will announce 'Oh yea, and X and Y won so team Z has already won' after only seeing a few maps.

Second, split viewership, lets say you have 500 concurrent viewers watching (Random number), if you stream 3 games at once, you're going to have something like 200/200/100 (Random numbers) and each stream is worse off because of it. Also, theres quite a large turnover on viewers, a few people will tune in late or tune out early for a variety of reasons. Lets say you get 1500 stream views in an hour, splitting the event up and doing 3 streams means you'll be casting for about an hour to an hour and a half, giving you about 2k views total, but if you have 1 guy run it, it'll last 3-4 hours and you'll have 4500-6000 views total, which is more impressive to sponsors obviously.

Finally, running the event for 3-4 hours makes it more of an event, if it only lasts an hour its more of an afterthought and people are more prone to missing it.

While I totally agree with your first point.
your second point isn't quite on the money, while I agree, multi streams = split viewership.. but in a Team league, most of the viewers are there to watch a particular team that they support. so if there is only 1 stream that isn't playing the game I want to watch, I simply won't tune in at all. However if the team playing is one that I like or support, then I'm more personally invested in the match, more likely to watch and more likely to keep tuned in until the match is finished. Then if you select only 1 streamer, Why does that one individual get a monopoly on showcasing this event? - if there are 5 simultaneous matches on, then there should be 5 streams.

Also, hypothetically, Say your the only one allowed to stream Benji, if there are 5 simultaneous matches on - are you always going to show xGKing? or would you be willing to allow a poll to be taken each week to select the match show?... (this is not a cop out, I'm not saying your biased (well, of course you are to some degree, xGKing is your team) but how does the match to be shown get selected? Of course the temptation to only show xGKing is there for you, how do you overcome that transparently and fairly for the other teams?

Peleus · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 12:50 PM

IMO have two days streaming, one focused on a match between two teams, and the second focused on highlights of the previous week.

I.e. Have one night a stream of TA vs SQLT, and watch it all the way through giving the teams a good run through and exposure and 'drama' of a series where you can hope that team X or Y wins.

Later in the week after all the matches have been completed and replays submitted pick out some of the top games in a highlight cast, showcasing the best of what other teams had to offer.

In this format there are going to be a lot of games, so finding the balance between suspense of watching a whole match will be one side of it, while trying to focus on the best games / players is the other consideration. I think having the two casts on different nights finds a decent balance between it.

P.s. Rotate around which teams are focused on each week for the 'series' cast, so every team gets a chance in the limelight.

Can we have some clarification on who is / isn't able to play for clans? teamed players? etc etc, just haven't seen any official guidelines so far. Sorry I think this topic started a bit of a flame war earlier in other threads.

crAzerk · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 12:54 PM

@Peleus
While the streaming idea you have sounds ideal, logistically it'll be a nightmare. You're going to need one dedicated streamer/caster to collect all the replays, sieve through them and pick out the 'top games', and produce a 'show' for presentation.

All these takes ALOT of time (as I'm sure Benji will tell you, with his SEA Weeklies), and we'll need someone to step up to this task otherwise it's not really feasible.

As for the clan/teamed players, it seems to have been resolved with xgKing combining with SQLT and fielding a team in the signup thread. Not sure/can't remember what the official stand is /was.

deL · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 3:04 PM

Yah not really happy with how the format turned out - big of a mess with the made up teams and allied teams, would have preferred something more clan oriented and then have a separate but related event for the sponsored teams where the spotlight is solely on them and the format more suited to their roster sizes :/ Oh well should be fun regardless. Also, should call it team league not clan league! SEATL :P

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	Dont worry the format only disadvantages TA
	mGMUSE:	precisely.. clans and teams should be separated

deL · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 3:35 PM

I'm not happy with how the team league turned out, mostly because it doesn't "feel" like any representation of the teams of SEA. There are so many merged teams and made up teams and I think most of the appeal of a team league is having distinct teams playing each other rather than trying to force a close contest. It just feels messy and it's hard for me to get excited for despite all of SEA's top players being involved as well as some of the lesser known teams. Add to that the format had to be changed so much to accommodate the teams and the clans and all these hybrid teams rather than having ideal, distinct formats for both the low-player count teams and the large-player count clans.

I would prefer to see another tier added, and the playdays broken up over 2 or 3 days rather than require all this player juggling and team merging. By simply adding 1-2 playdays and another tier for just sponsored teams (with a more appropriate format and coverage) we could have a more meaningful competition and less messy alliances between teams.

Consider:

Pro League (Saturday, 3 x Bo5, round robin)
MiTH, ArcMSI, SQLT, Mski, xGKing, Herocraft, international team/s invited? (can help with this)

Expert League (Friday, 7 x bo3, round robin + playoffs)
aLt, TA, inFi, SPR, dtG, ToT

Elite League (Friday, 5 x bo3, round robin)
-Open

Adept League (Thursday, 5 x bo3, round robin)
-PDCL

Rookie League (Thursday, 5 x bo3, round robin)
-BSGCL

Something like this caters to the different format and exposure requirements for each team or clan. Face it, a team's sponsor will barely notice a relatively small clan league even when a team it sponsors is participating let alone when the team is padded by a bunch of other players from other teams, and is playing against people who are not even in sponsored teams.

This format above would be very easy to implement and not disrupt current signups, as for the top 2 tiers (Pro and Expert) players could and would overlap. Additionally it is a lot easier on the admins. Having a maximum of 2 leagues running any single night it means if one of the designated admins covering a league can be replaced by a volunteer from the other league admins because he or she won't be busy on the same night with their own league's games. Prime time on the weekend is given to the Pro Teams as they appreciate the additional exposure, and the leagues with a lot more players and so less chance of walkover is held on the day most likely to present walkovers (with people going out friday night).

What do people think? It's not too late to tinker with the format, as we have seen it's been mixed up right until the most recent signups (with xG and SQLT merging despite being seperate invites). If you need more detail I could whip up a liquipedia page to give a holistic view of the fixtures and format.

EDIT: If anyone is worried about the funds being spread too thin between this and the FA cup style games I think either ditching the FA cup completely would be an option, or save that for down time between the general clan league to keep clan interest and activity up rather than just spiking when SEACLs run. OR I am sure donors would be willing to bump the prizepool a bit to see more of their favourite teams included.

Quick Comments

	Cute:
	Maynarde:	Good idea
	ProAnnn:	Actually i would prefer this!
	syfChadMann:	Good idea! :D
	x5.Revenant:	Well thought out~
	Volition:	good post
	TADivinity:	yes yes and yes

Peleus · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 4:29 PM

Agree a bit with del here. This isn't to take away any of the fantastic work people have been doing and putting in towards this, but I think that the community should come first, and the sponsorship / prize money / "esports growth" should come second.

I know a lot of the motivation for accommodations has been to fit in the top players on SEA to showcase what we have, in an effort to gain more sponsors, exposure etc, but without the community behind it it will never grow and progress.

Seems like with the best intentions in the world it's gotten bigger than ben hur, trying to be so many things at once. A cut back version focusing on the core idea of showcasing the best clans on SEA could be a really polished affair, and once it's demonstrated that the SEACL can be run professionally and smoothly (as I'm sure all the wonderful volunteers can do) it will certain grow to accommodate more casters / admins / leagues / casted matches.

I feel this post may be taken the wrong way, and as disrespectful towards all the work that the SC2SEA people are putting into this, but as always I want the best for the community first.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Don't be ashamed to say what you think.

**Maynarde** · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 4:43 PM

I feel like I agree with a few of deL's points here.

The format is quite nice, and not too heavy of a shift from the current one. Merged teams are good to make up numbers, but I'm sure what everyone wants is for their team to be represented at the highest level without the need to make up numbers and show what their squad can really do.

I'm not sure if there's a need to spread it over several days though? Perhaps Expert, Adept, Rookie all played on a Thursday night while Elite and Pro played on a Friday night? If Elite is an open tier for whatever make shift team you want for funsies, then there will be alot of players from Expert, Adept and Rookie in it I'd imagine. Saturday night can be pretty tough for those few with social lives and girlfriends >_>

crAzerk · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 4:51 PM

I like what del is saying, as currently it seems to be getting abit stretched with the merged teams and all.

However, if we do split up according to these tiers, I think we should scrap the FA Cup otherwise our resources will really be stretched.

**Maynarde** · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I like what del is saying, as currently it seems to be getting abit stretched with the merged teams and all.

However, if we do split up according to these tiers, I think we should scrap the FA Cup otherwise our resources will really be stretched.

If resources are stretched (money or people) I'm happy to sweeten the pot cash wise and there are some people that deserve a go at admin-ing who have a chance to shine

crAzerk · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:21 PM

Quote:

some people that deserve a go at admin-ing who have a chance to shine

I have done some mental calculations and it doesn't seem we exactly have an abundant of volunteers but I could be wrong. Maybe you could do some hypothetical slotting in of people into the actual slots and see if we really do have an excess of volunteers.

VB_WhiplashJC · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:28 PM

I have no valid opinion on the top two leagues, but del it looks like you've gotten rid of the strengths of the current format (non restricted player leagues and promotion/relegation) for no reason?

Playdays should be negotiated by the teams regardless imo anyway.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

deL · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:33 PM

Thanks for the support guys, after I posted that I kinda re-read it and felt I came across as negative. It's not that, it's just that I care a lot about this game, community and members and really want everything to run as well as possible! Big thanks to everyone making it happen!

Quote:

Originally Posted by VB_WhiplashJC

I have no valid opinion on the top two leagues, but del it looks like you've gotten rid of the strengths of the current format (non restricted player leagues and promotion/relegation) for no reason?

Playdays should be negotiated by the teams regardless imo anyway.

Aside from the top 2 leagues the others are similar to the current format, and you can keep the promotion/relegation format (I was the one who suggested it initially I think lol) I just didn't explicitly state it here. The 'open' league covers the non restricted player league!

Quick Comments

Stallion:

such a BAWS :D <3

mGMUSE · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:35 PM

just have two different leagues.. one for CLANS(a little more casual) and another one for TEAMS(more competitive)

x5.Revenant · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAdeL

+ Show +

Totally agree with the Pro League format. With inFi's lineup being scarce(RedArchon&Indy participating under MiTH, TargA being in Norway), the most possible scenario for us is to have 3-4 players max because of the commitments all of our players have(See TCL4: There's almost always >3 aMSI players having to play). With three sets of Bo5s, it would make teams with smaller rosters be able to compete.

deL · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

just have two different leagues.. one for CLANS(a little more casual) and another one for TEAMS(more competitive)

That's kind of what this is, but doesn't completely differentiate them. With the format that runs the team and clan leagues parallel to each other and the lower tier leagues we can do all that fun stuff like combined overall stats and make sure everyone is active at the same time, etc.

The other option would be like Brood War where you have a format change in the middle season (so like Clan, Team, Clan, Team over the seasons) but with no guarantee of sponsorship of further events I felt this way sort of covers every base at once in a neat way.

NvRossi · Tue, 27th-Dec-2011, 5:52 PM

Very impressed at this idea Del. I always felt the clans should be separated from the teams in this matter and you put it into a sexy format. Much better representation of each team and/or clans full strength as well as allowing all teams to participate.

The 3 x bo5 for the pro teams caters to teams on the lower side of members and i feel it will be very competitive. Can also be catered to sponsors more?

The simple brilliance of it is that it allows players to play both for their team and clan, such as Infi players as rev mentions or sqltt allowing sensei yang to play for TA and pig can play for both tt and alt if he chooses to.

The only problem i can foresee is that there is too much content, so maybe we should showcase a different league each week? or disable the community like we did last time? (as a suggestion if the idea is approved)

Quick Comments

mGMUSE:

showcase different league each week sounds good